StatmanDesigns

I understand what you are saying, but it is just not correct. You are ignoring some obvious things in your over-simplification. On a race track there are very specific critical spots that require GREAT skill in managing at 9/10ths or 10/10ths, these areas are very small compared to the overall length of the race track. For example, it is simple to drive at 10/10ths in the middle of the longest straight away, and even the most inexperienced driver can mash the thottle to the floor and go at the limit of the car. Therefore, it is completely unrealistic to think that averaging 1/2 the speed at all points on the track is equivalent to driving a car at 5/10ths.

In your example, comparing a 1:40 lap time to a 2:05 time, you would be lapped in a race every 5 laps. That is just absurd. I would guess the difference between 8/10ths and 10/10ths would be more like 8-10 seconds per lap, not 25 seconds in your example. Do I have an absolute firm calculation, nope, and I never could. Just because your calculation involves a combination of 80% and some lap times, does not make it correct; and in this case, it is dramatically off. But it does not matter to me in the least, so I am done.

TT Surgeon

After Walter Rohl(sp) crashed the second CGT, wasn't he quoted somewhere as saying the car was unsafe for the general public?
I think you have to have your wits about you at all times(street or track) in one of these cars or bad sh$t is gonna happen.

DMin

That's similar to the phrase, "trial by a jury of your peers".

1958 Convertible D

Just plain bull****.

I don't consider myself "the best of drivers" and I safely enjoy driving my CGT on both public roads and the track. Nick when you own a CGT, I might consider your opinions to have some validity. But you don't, do you.

I hope I never reach a point in my life when I sit around the house in my red longjohns, reading every car magazine report like it's divine guidance from the Allmighty, and spending my valuable time posting negative messages about a car I've never owned. Good luck with the rest of what appears to be a pathetic life. Like others on this board, I view your messages as the equivalent of finding something stuck to the bottom of my shoe. Wipe it off, and move on.

Les Quam

How did you find out he wears red longjohns around the house?
Just curious how you would have that kind of information? Perhaps you two are a lot closer than we are lead to believe???? LOL

Quite franky I enjoy the reputation the CGT has as a widowmaker it will make the car that much more valuable in the future. HEMI cuda's have that reputation and HEMI cuda convertibles sell for in the millions and 71 HEMI cuda hardtops hardtops for over a million. Nick is doing all of us a big favor IMHO. Spread the word Nick!

Ray G

OK, I've tried to ignore this thread, but I'm weak.

The CGT is much more stable than a GT3/2 because of its wheelbase, mid-engine design, and other factors. I've never driven a GT2, but if it feels like a more powerful GT3, I can understand why it is called a "widow maker".

I now have at least 1000 track miles on my CGT, and I would say it's the most confidence inspiring car I ever tracked. To say it is unsafe is just ignorant. Sure, stupid people will do stupid things and crash it. They can also crash the vast majority of cars that don't have stability control.

All Porsche fans should be proud of the CGT. It is simply fantastic.

Les Quam

I own both a GT2 and CGT and totally agree. The CGT is the finest handling car I have ever driven. I think what Mario was trying to say was that any 600HP car for the street except maybe the 4000 LB Mercedes amg SL 65 is going to be a car that can get anyone who drives the car into alot of trouble simply because it is a 200 MPH plus street car.

I don't think Nick is saying the CGT is a poor handling car or has any design flaws in fact I interpret is remarks as very respectful of the cars handling capablities but rather that when we as average drivers can walk in off the street and drive out of a Porsche dealership with a 600 HP car designed for LeMans that the cars incredible performance potential makes it very dangerous if common sense is not used. It seems to me one can get into vastly more trouble in a CGT than a Honda Accord which is not to say that one can't do something stupid and get themselves killed in the Accord.


But I am sorry I can't get that picture out of my mind of Nick sitting around in his red longjohns reading car magazines. For the love of God man show some compassion! LOL

W8MM

Ray,

I went through a time when Nick's trolls were stronger than my ability to stay away, too.

I am now able to resist their pull, except when the temptation to inject a little humor gets the better of me.

With a little more practice, I hope I can ignore them completely.

We should start a support group!

Nick

BINGO!

I driven and ridden the CGT several times and I know what it is and isn't. Ownership is not necessary to evaluate the car. Also, ownership tends to affect objective judgment.

I stand by (in my long red johns) my statement that the CGT should have been equipped with performance safety features with F1 tranny and the failure to do so makes the car dangerous at high speed rendering it almost useless for public roads.

Attack me personally all you want (not you Les). I am secure in the knowledge that facts concerning this car have supported my statements. I realize it is a tough pill to swallow for owners when they paid close to $500,000 for the car but understanding what you own and its limitations can save your life one day. And for that I am willing to take the abuse.

jdcohenmd

The same issue of overwhelming power is currently available in all 1000cc sportbikes. 160+hp with 400lbs. Anyone can walk in a buy a GSXR1000 for 10K. I have been riding for may years and the power of my MV F4 1000 with 165 rear wheel hp is quite unbelievable. If you open up the throttle in any of the 1st 3 gears the front wheel comes right up. You must modulate the throttle, especially in exiting corners or you will high side into oblivion. The point is you must respect the throttle, no different in a CGT. Surely you get away with more in a car than a bike but throttle control is necessary. I am expecting my CGT in Sept. I think it is much safer then my superformance cobra at 2400lbs with 550hp, short wheel base and minimal safetly features. The very slow steering respones makes it imposs9ible to catch a slide and stop the car from spinning. THROTTLE CONTROL, RESPECT, and RESTRAINT. Less than a month to automotive bliss.

W8MM

Hi J.D.,

That insight is just too simple and too elegant for this discussion.

Enjoy your new car in good health!

ked

Nick, thanks for taking all this abuse in order to save us from ourselves. Have you considered the ministry?

M758

Well the problem is most US drivers are not capable of handling with these cars. Most US drivers are not ready for the sharp response and the need to be constantly aware. Many drivers if given the chance to drive a CGT would stop on gas and be lucky not to end up in light post.

The reason is that they think that they are better drivers than they are. The think they know how to control a car like this at speed and most of all.. They do not respect the car at all.

Those of you that have these cars and survived know all about restraint and respect. Try to drive CGT like you stole it and it will get ugly very fast. Heck this apply to and GT2 or GT3 and most any Porsche. The CGT is just tougher since it so easy to exceed the driver's skill level in the car.
The car is wonderfull car, but must be respected at all times.

On down side of a car that corners and handles well is that it inspires confidence. Sometimes too much confidence and so when limits are exceeded it can be surprise and in a car like CGT the speeds can vast. Thus the result is alot of energy to disapate and a potentially ugly crash.

Trying to approach limits of even my old 944 Turbo on street is dangerious. I can't imagine coming close on the street in CGT.

Now on to this concept of 8/10 and 10/10ths. There is the absolute limit of the car. This is in reality not known. What can be determined is the limit of the car and driver combined. As drivers get more skilled their limit increases and thus what is the limit with novice is still 10/10th, but not close to what a pro could do. That said driving at anyones personal 10/10ths is very hard. It means basicly that you are on the razor edge and any small mistake will result in some sort of off. Driving 8/10th or 9/10ths is not 10% or 20% slower. It is in fact 10 to 20% less effort/risk, but at the peak of the effort/risk vs speed curve. This curve is not close to being linear. To get that last 2% of speed takes can take 50% more effort.

I know this from taking my racecar to my 10/10ths. This quite alot of work and concentration. However allow me to run 5 seconds slower and it can feel like walk in the park or sunday drive with family. Going 5/10th 1/2 speed/effort/risk is like 5 seconds off the pace. I often run at 9/10 in race. This is certainly not 10% slower, but more like 0.25 to 0.5 sec slower.

BuddyG

Since according to Nick "I am scared of my own shadow" Ferrari owner the Carrera GT is almost useless for the public roads, why don't some of you current owners just give me the car since I am sure you will immediately park it and never drive it again on public roads due to Nick's expert opinion!

Ray G

Agree that (any) car should be respected. Only the most immature of drivers would try driving the CGT like that. That applies to any other powerful car. I don't think that should reflect badly on the car itself. I also don't think anybody posting here would even consider driving their cars like that on the street. "Most US drivers" won't be driving these cars, so that danger is not imminent.

Understood. But, the ease of handling in the CGT is what makes it safe, in my mind. Indeed you can say that most well designed sports cars are safer than the average sedan because they can turn better, stop better, and generally provide more control and feel. That is a plus for the car. Now, the idiot behind the wheel may be another matter...