CGT - Why the "monster" reputation?
08-29-2005, 10:04 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by themarsman
Nick I think this is what you need:
http://www.force-dynamics.com/
Just think you could race all day and you wouldn't have to worry about taking chances. I'll bet they can come up with a program that wouldn't let you crash, it could just drive for you.
http://www.force-dynamics.com/
Just think you could race all day and you wouldn't have to worry about taking chances. I'll bet they can come up with a program that wouldn't let you crash, it could just drive for you.
I don't quite understand the matching of ego to car, to be honest. I love cars to death, but while they're art and conveyance and exhilaration, I don't see them as *self*. If you like a car, you buy it. If you can't drive it to its limits, you either don't, or you'll go into the weeds. It's not about being worthy or unworthy, or about whether someone who buys car A is more manly than someone who buys car B because car A makes you heel-and-toe.
When it comes down to it, if you want to test your skill in a car, you'll do far, far better in a 944 at an SCCA track day than you will in *anything* on the street.
And if you find your skills are lacking, you can always buy a simulator to brush up on your throttle control...
08-29-2005, 10:47 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by PeriSoft
I'm an owner of Force Dynamics, and while I'm reluctant to horn in on a flame war, I'd like to point out that we don't intend or claim our products to be substitutes for real driving. We do think, though, that simulation can let drivers experience things they might otherwise not (Formula One in the rain at the Nordschliefe comes to mind) - and to some extent train themselves to be ready when the traction control doesn't quite measure up...
I don't quite understand the matching of ego to car, to be honest. I love cars to death, but while they're art and conveyance and exhilaration, I don't see them as *self*. If you like a car, you buy it. If you can't drive it to its limits, you either don't, or you'll go into the weeds. It's not about being worthy or unworthy, or about whether someone who buys car A is more manly than someone who buys car B because car A makes you heel-and-toe.
When it comes down to it, if you want to test your skill in a car, you'll do far, far better in a 944 at an SCCA track day than you will in *anything* on the street.
BTW if you are who I think you are you are a much better driver than most anyone I know.
Good Luck with your simulator and I look forward to posting more information on the various car forums I belong to after I have put it through its paces.
And if you find your skills are lacking, you can always buy a simulator to brush up on your throttle control...
I don't quite understand the matching of ego to car, to be honest. I love cars to death, but while they're art and conveyance and exhilaration, I don't see them as *self*. If you like a car, you buy it. If you can't drive it to its limits, you either don't, or you'll go into the weeds. It's not about being worthy or unworthy, or about whether someone who buys car A is more manly than someone who buys car B because car A makes you heel-and-toe.
When it comes down to it, if you want to test your skill in a car, you'll do far, far better in a 944 at an SCCA track day than you will in *anything* on the street.
BTW if you are who I think you are you are a much better driver than most anyone I know.
Good Luck with your simulator and I look forward to posting more information on the various car forums I belong to after I have put it through its paces.
And if you find your skills are lacking, you can always buy a simulator to brush up on your throttle control...
I was just fed up with Nick's posts about the Carrera GT not being a "safe" car and that he wouldn't go out on a track if a CGT was also on the track. He seems to want to have a car that has numerous electronic devices to make him a better and safer driver. I jumped ahead to the final conclusion of his thinking, go to a simulator and you never have to worry about making mistakes while driving.
I have spent time in flying simulators and feel that good simulators are a great way to build skill while maintaining safety and keeping costs low. I look forward to getting your simulator and hope that it will improve my skill on the track with my cars.
08-30-2005, 12:07 AM
#49
Originally Posted by PeriSoft
I'm an owner of Force Dynamics, and while I'm reluctant to horn in on a flame war, I'd like to point out that we don't intend or claim our products to be substitutes for real driving. We do think, though, that simulation can let drivers experience things they might otherwise not (Formula One in the rain at the Nordschliefe comes to mind) - and to some extent train themselves to be ready when the traction control doesn't quite measure up...snip...
08-30-2005, 09:02 AM
#50
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Ray, yes, well... it *can* backfire! On less... mature... forums I just had a guy who, apparently unfamiliar with both paddle shifters and Danica Patrick, suggest that I should have been wearing women's underwear for using an automatic.
Thankfully, at its worst the level of conversation here seems to be a few rungs up...
themarsman, your machine is coming up quickly, by the way, and no, I didn't take your remark as insulting in any way. I just wanted to clarify my company's attitude toward simulation vs. reality - and toward what simulation -should- be.
...and if you ever decide that you *don't* want the CGT... :P
PS: At the risk of shamelessly plugging (Mods feel free to smack me down), we're going to be at the Rand/Workman auto auction Sept. 9/10/11 in NYC for anyone who wants to take a ride. We've got comp tickets, too... :P
Thankfully, at its worst the level of conversation here seems to be a few rungs up...
themarsman, your machine is coming up quickly, by the way, and no, I didn't take your remark as insulting in any way. I just wanted to clarify my company's attitude toward simulation vs. reality - and toward what simulation -should- be.
...and if you ever decide that you *don't* want the CGT... :P
PS: At the risk of shamelessly plugging (Mods feel free to smack me down), we're going to be at the Rand/Workman auto auction Sept. 9/10/11 in NYC for anyone who wants to take a ride. We've got comp tickets, too... :P
Last edited by PeriSoft; 08-30-2005 at 09:58 AM.
08-30-2005, 11:21 AM
#51
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"I would not put my car on the same track with a CGT unless it was driven by a professional."
Nick, upon reading your incessant (& insistent) commentary, I agree that you should get a pro to drive your car. Please keep up the entertaining revelation of oneself - maybe we should start a "Nick's Forum"?
On the original topic, this has been very informative, thanks to all the experienced owners - please keep it up for those of us who will someday be choosing among the GT2, GT3 & CGT.
Nick, upon reading your incessant (& insistent) commentary, I agree that you should get a pro to drive your car. Please keep up the entertaining revelation of oneself - maybe we should start a "Nick's Forum"?
On the original topic, this has been very informative, thanks to all the experienced owners - please keep it up for those of us who will someday be choosing among the GT2, GT3 & CGT.
09-04-2005, 01:55 PM
#52
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This is a very interesting thread.
The C-GT is an appropriate car considering Porsche History.
If you read tests of the 356 from the 50's you often find mention of the "dreaded spin". Porsches have always required a high degree of skill to drive, in fact any car driven at high speeds requires a very skilled driver.
Traditionally Porsche's have offered near Ferrari/Lamborghini performance in a car that could be driven everyday.
Porsche is once again showing that they can equal or exceed the performance of the super car exotics while maintaining their other good qualities. It takes time to be accepted in a new performance segment. The 959 was an incredible car that was never imported legally into the US, but now we get the C-GT, everyone should be happy about that.
What's interesting is the amount of controversy this car is causing; You think people would just be happy that a company with Porsche's resources decided to produce the C-GT at all.
PS The C-GT picture and captions crack me up
"The owner is doing an oil change." and "Spent all his money on the car, none left over for a jack." are just hilarious.
The C-GT is an appropriate car considering Porsche History.
If you read tests of the 356 from the 50's you often find mention of the "dreaded spin". Porsches have always required a high degree of skill to drive, in fact any car driven at high speeds requires a very skilled driver.
Traditionally Porsche's have offered near Ferrari/Lamborghini performance in a car that could be driven everyday.
Porsche is once again showing that they can equal or exceed the performance of the super car exotics while maintaining their other good qualities. It takes time to be accepted in a new performance segment. The 959 was an incredible car that was never imported legally into the US, but now we get the C-GT, everyone should be happy about that.
What's interesting is the amount of controversy this car is causing; You think people would just be happy that a company with Porsche's resources decided to produce the C-GT at all.
PS The C-GT picture and captions crack me up
"The owner is doing an oil change." and "Spent all his money on the car, none left over for a jack." are just hilarious.
Originally Posted by Sauron
W8MM - tremendous post in the other thread - thank you so much.
From the comments posted here, it appears that the CGT really is a race car for the road and more than anything else Porsche have resisted the tendency to "dumb-down" the car. It's also clear that Porsche EXPECT a certain level of driver skill from owners of their most focussed products... GT3/GT2 and then a few levels up..... the CGT.
What I find interesting is the trade off between outright chassis capability and how critical on-limit handling is. The Ferrari Enzo (a car I've driven) has huge limits too but Ferrari "appear" to have taken the edge off the car with electronics and the on-limit behaviour. It looks like this has not happened with the CGT. In line with Porsche's philosophy for the their most sporting products, it looks from your comments, that the limits have been raised to some crazy level, and the penalty is that the car requires serious skill to extract the most from.
Putting the last paragraph a bit more clearly:
A friend of mine has a Ferrari F50 and a CGT (and has driven the Enzo extensively). He explained that whilst the CGT will destroy the F50 in every way, it's ultimate limits are even HIGHER than the Ferrari Enzo he has driven (he actually said that the car can pull what appears to be discernibly greater outright lateral G) but those limits come at the expense of it's on-limit behaviour.
Les Quam - I was offered an 02 GT2 with less miles for less money than my 04 GT3 - I didn't go for it because I was put off by the "widomaker" tag the GT2 has here in the UK...
How would you compare the two cars in terms of outright performance and interestingly, how they behave when you get it wrong??
From the comments posted here, it appears that the CGT really is a race car for the road and more than anything else Porsche have resisted the tendency to "dumb-down" the car. It's also clear that Porsche EXPECT a certain level of driver skill from owners of their most focussed products... GT3/GT2 and then a few levels up..... the CGT.
What I find interesting is the trade off between outright chassis capability and how critical on-limit handling is. The Ferrari Enzo (a car I've driven) has huge limits too but Ferrari "appear" to have taken the edge off the car with electronics and the on-limit behaviour. It looks like this has not happened with the CGT. In line with Porsche's philosophy for the their most sporting products, it looks from your comments, that the limits have been raised to some crazy level, and the penalty is that the car requires serious skill to extract the most from.
Putting the last paragraph a bit more clearly:
A friend of mine has a Ferrari F50 and a CGT (and has driven the Enzo extensively). He explained that whilst the CGT will destroy the F50 in every way, it's ultimate limits are even HIGHER than the Ferrari Enzo he has driven (he actually said that the car can pull what appears to be discernibly greater outright lateral G) but those limits come at the expense of it's on-limit behaviour.
Les Quam - I was offered an 02 GT2 with less miles for less money than my 04 GT3 - I didn't go for it because I was put off by the "widomaker" tag the GT2 has here in the UK...
How would you compare the two cars in terms of outright performance and interestingly, how they behave when you get it wrong??
