New Comparo
12-30-2004, 08:28 PM
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New Comparo
There is a new comparison review out in Automobile Magazine, January 2005 (Vol. 19, No. 10). Basically, they compare the McClaren-Mercedes SLR, the Lamborghini Murcielago, the Ford GT and the Porsche Carrera GT. Unfortunately, the online site at Automobile Mag Comparo Pics only has pictures, no text. However, for those of you who don't want to spend the USD $3.99 for the magazine, I'll summarize:
Now, let's talk Porsche.
Lorio:"The sound of the Carrera GT revving its engine is straight out of pit lane at the Indy 500. There is absolutely nothing else like it."
Sherman:"The engine zings like a buzz saw, the steering is crisp and sure, the chassis grips as if tied to the road by steel cables. It makes all the sounds and swings that car enthusiasts live for."
Gillies:"Enough power to send you straight to jail for a long time. Fourth is good for 140 mph plus, so I don't know where you would ever see max revs in sixth. The Mulsanne, maybe?"
We love the Porsche. It's no secret that our affection begins with one of the most amazing engines ever to live in a production car. With 605 hp and 435 lb-ft of torque, it can be hard to stay on top of your moves. Step on it, and you've reached the redline. Upshift, and... you've reached the redline. Upshift again, and you can break the tires loose. Upshift again, and the power is still pouring on like nothing you've felt in your life except on a racetrack. The last thing on your mind will be to turn on the radio.
The quality of the Carrera GT's ride is astonishing, despite its monster wheels and tires, which do follow road grooves enough to notice. But it takes a real cow path to unnerve this car. Steering is alive in your hands, and lateral acceleration blows the others into the weeds.
It stops the way it goes - like, now - its non-metallic brakes parking the Porsche 18 feet shorter from 70 mph than its closest competitor, the SLR. Everything about the Carrera GT is intense, including how much fun it is to drive.
To be honest, your coolness can be compromised by the extremely touchy clutch. The recommended procedure is to let it out without touching the accelerator pedal, easing neatly away from a stop. But if you get a little nervous (say, at an uphill stop with maybe a Ford GT waiting close behind you), you might be tempted to give the accelerator a little goose. You will surely stall. Lorio suffers a worse lapse of cool when, upon stalling, he finds the just-delivered Carrera GT to have a dead battery and has to ask some locals for a push. He recovers because he is still in the Porsche, now bombing down the road, wondering "what the poor people were driving" that day, as dear departed Aunt Red used to say.
....
The clear, unthreatened winner at any price is the Porsche Carrera GT, your own personal prototype, street-legal racer. Its striking presence will suck the air out of any parking lot. You will grow addicted to its monstrous power and revel in its everyday livability. You will surely endanger your driving privileges.
We are devastated to part with the Porsche at the close of day, but Sherman weaves us a rosy tale at bedtime:
"When very good boys and girls who love cars finally clear the Pearly Gates, one of these machines is waiting for them to enjoy. No cops, Virginia roads, engine warmed, fuel needle stuck on full."
Lorio:"The sound of the Carrera GT revving its engine is straight out of pit lane at the Indy 500. There is absolutely nothing else like it."
Sherman:"The engine zings like a buzz saw, the steering is crisp and sure, the chassis grips as if tied to the road by steel cables. It makes all the sounds and swings that car enthusiasts live for."
Gillies:"Enough power to send you straight to jail for a long time. Fourth is good for 140 mph plus, so I don't know where you would ever see max revs in sixth. The Mulsanne, maybe?"
We love the Porsche. It's no secret that our affection begins with one of the most amazing engines ever to live in a production car. With 605 hp and 435 lb-ft of torque, it can be hard to stay on top of your moves. Step on it, and you've reached the redline. Upshift, and... you've reached the redline. Upshift again, and you can break the tires loose. Upshift again, and the power is still pouring on like nothing you've felt in your life except on a racetrack. The last thing on your mind will be to turn on the radio.
The quality of the Carrera GT's ride is astonishing, despite its monster wheels and tires, which do follow road grooves enough to notice. But it takes a real cow path to unnerve this car. Steering is alive in your hands, and lateral acceleration blows the others into the weeds.
It stops the way it goes - like, now - its non-metallic brakes parking the Porsche 18 feet shorter from 70 mph than its closest competitor, the SLR. Everything about the Carrera GT is intense, including how much fun it is to drive.
To be honest, your coolness can be compromised by the extremely touchy clutch. The recommended procedure is to let it out without touching the accelerator pedal, easing neatly away from a stop. But if you get a little nervous (say, at an uphill stop with maybe a Ford GT waiting close behind you), you might be tempted to give the accelerator a little goose. You will surely stall. Lorio suffers a worse lapse of cool when, upon stalling, he finds the just-delivered Carrera GT to have a dead battery and has to ask some locals for a push. He recovers because he is still in the Porsche, now bombing down the road, wondering "what the poor people were driving" that day, as dear departed Aunt Red used to say.
....
The clear, unthreatened winner at any price is the Porsche Carrera GT, your own personal prototype, street-legal racer. Its striking presence will suck the air out of any parking lot. You will grow addicted to its monstrous power and revel in its everyday livability. You will surely endanger your driving privileges.
We are devastated to part with the Porsche at the close of day, but Sherman weaves us a rosy tale at bedtime:
"When very good boys and girls who love cars finally clear the Pearly Gates, one of these machines is waiting for them to enjoy. No cops, Virginia roads, engine warmed, fuel needle stuck on full."
12-31-2004, 01:07 PM
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haha nice summary. I read the article at the airport picking up my gf. It was rather light I thought in any substantive comparisons but fun to read regardless. 
I wonder what Ben thought as he had been hunting for the article for the past few weeks!
I wonder what Ben thought as he had been hunting for the article for the past few weeks!
12-31-2004, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by SPR
haha nice summary. I read the article at the airport picking up my gf. It was rather light I thought in any substantive comparisons but fun to read regardless. I wonder what Ben thought as he had been hunting for the article for the past few weeks!
I wonder what Ben thought as he had been hunting for the article for the past few weeks!
01-05-2005, 12:19 AM
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I think I saw this one... Is it the one that shows the peak g figures reached in the tests? I remember seeing one while Christmas shopping but haven't tracked it down since. It was either Automobile or R&T (one of the two larger-format car mags). I wanted to buy it because I thought that was a really neat figure to put in there.
01-05-2005, 01:32 PM
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FSAEracer03-
There is a large chart towards the end of the review, and one of the numbers recorded was "peak g" but there was no real description of how that number was achieved. The author(s) admitted that the comparison was based more on look, feel and sound than true hard-and-fast objective performance measures.
Still and entertaining read, IMO. I particularly enjoyed their descriptions of the peculiar doors present on most of the other cars.
There is a large chart towards the end of the review, and one of the numbers recorded was "peak g" but there was no real description of how that number was achieved. The author(s) admitted that the comparison was based more on look, feel and sound than true hard-and-fast objective performance measures.
Still and entertaining read, IMO. I particularly enjoyed their descriptions of the peculiar doors present on most of the other cars.
01-06-2005, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by DMin
... one of the numbers recorded was "peak g" but there was no real description of how that number was achieved.
The lateral acceleration (and most other) figures were taken by both testers with a VBOX (details here) . There was a discussion among the testers as to how long the averaging interval should be for the cornering g readings. It's my information that Car and Driver used several seconds of averaging for their data (1.10 - 1.19 g), whereas Mr. Sherman preferred something much shorter ... maybe around 1 second. That's why the figure is referred to as being a "peak g" reading.
There are reasoned arguements for abiding by either standard.
BTW, Porsche engineer Roland Kussmaul told me that the CGT was good for 1.25 g max-lat on the stock street tires.
01-06-2005, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by W8MM
It's my belief that the 1.3 g figure came from a Porsche-sponsored USA-press test event in Italy that was the source of the Car and Driver review (here) , and others, published last Summer. Larry Webster told me that Don Sherman was there and that he conducted some very thorough instrumented tests. The data did not result immediately in a story for Automobile Magazine. Perhaps this story is the outlet for those measurements.
The lateral acceleration (and most other) figures were taken by both testers with a VBOX (details here) . There was a discussion among the testers as to how long the averaging interval should be for the cornering g readings. It's my information that Car and Driver used several seconds of averaging for their data (1.10 - 1.19 g), whereas Mr. Sherman preferred something much shorter ... maybe around 1 second. That's why the figure is referred to as being a "peak g" reading.
There are reasoned arguements for abiding by either standard.
BTW, Porsche engineer Roland Kussmaul told me that the CGT was good for 1.25 g max-lat on the stock street tires.
The lateral acceleration (and most other) figures were taken by both testers with a VBOX (details here) . There was a discussion among the testers as to how long the averaging interval should be for the cornering g readings. It's my information that Car and Driver used several seconds of averaging for their data (1.10 - 1.19 g), whereas Mr. Sherman preferred something much shorter ... maybe around 1 second. That's why the figure is referred to as being a "peak g" reading.
There are reasoned arguements for abiding by either standard.
BTW, Porsche engineer Roland Kussmaul told me that the CGT was good for 1.25 g max-lat on the stock street tires.
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01-06-2005, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ben in lj
i don't remember know which show or magazine tested it (against another), but the CGT produced 1.3s to nearly a 1.4 on the track on which they tested it. don't remember their measurement methodology though.
Roland's 1.25 g quote to me was understood to mean measured in a flat corner on some kind of VDA.
Now, ... if one were to find a little super-elevation (advantageous banking) of the road surface and/or pull up into a rise (just after a dip) in the track as one traverses the corner -- anything that pushes the tires onto the track harder --, I can imagine reaching 1.5 g or slightly better.
IIRC, the test you are remembering had an annotated map of the test track and appeared in a Euopean magazine, perhaps Sport Auto or Auto-Motor-und-Sport.
02-19-2005, 09:35 PM
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Hello
the max g for teh C GT was 1.35g in Hockenheim short track. The Gt3 RS makes 1.3 g
This wa smessured by sport Auto supertest with a 2D datarecording device. It is the one that used in F1 and cost about 25000 EUR (about 30000 US $) This is the most accurate and lightest device you can find today.
there was a test in the same track between a F1 car, a DTM car, a Porsche Supercup and a Carrera GT
This was also the ranking for the fastest lap.
The GT3 cup did 1.7 G on slicks on the same track. A good sport car like the Mercedes SL65 AMG makes about 1.1g on this track. and a Jaguar XKR only 0.9 g
Konstantin
the max g for teh C GT was 1.35g in Hockenheim short track. The Gt3 RS makes 1.3 g
This wa smessured by sport Auto supertest with a 2D datarecording device. It is the one that used in F1 and cost about 25000 EUR (about 30000 US $) This is the most accurate and lightest device you can find today.
there was a test in the same track between a F1 car, a DTM car, a Porsche Supercup and a Carrera GT
This was also the ranking for the fastest lap.
The GT3 cup did 1.7 G on slicks on the same track. A good sport car like the Mercedes SL65 AMG makes about 1.1g on this track. and a Jaguar XKR only 0.9 g
Konstantin
02-19-2005, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Konstantin
Hello
the max g for teh C GT was 1.35g in Hockenheim short track. The Gt3 RS makes 1.3 g
This wa smessured by sport Auto supertest with a 2D datarecording device. It is the one that used in F1 and cost about 25000 EUR (about 30000 US $) This is the most accurate and lightest device you can find today.
there was a test in the same track between a F1 car, a DTM car, a Porsche Supercup and a Carrera GT
This was also the ranking for the fastest lap.
The GT3 cup did 1.7 G on slicks on the same track. A good sport car like the Mercedes SL65 AMG makes about 1.1g on this track. and a Jaguar XKR only 0.9 g
Konstantin
the max g for teh C GT was 1.35g in Hockenheim short track. The Gt3 RS makes 1.3 g
This wa smessured by sport Auto supertest with a 2D datarecording device. It is the one that used in F1 and cost about 25000 EUR (about 30000 US $) This is the most accurate and lightest device you can find today.
there was a test in the same track between a F1 car, a DTM car, a Porsche Supercup and a Carrera GT
This was also the ranking for the fastest lap.
The GT3 cup did 1.7 G on slicks on the same track. A good sport car like the Mercedes SL65 AMG makes about 1.1g on this track. and a Jaguar XKR only 0.9 g
Konstantin
02-21-2005, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by ben in lj
Yep, the tires are by far the weakest link on the CGT. Put something stickier on it, and it would be absolutely amazing. BTW, is the 4500 lb SL65 really considered a "good sports" car?
there are sports cars, good sport cars and super sport cars.
you decide
Konstantin