Cup Ownership: Self Supporting
08-19-2016, 02:53 PM
#17
Do you have Nitro-bottles in it?
cabinet section. The 33 cu ft bottle is only 22" long. The cabinet is big
enough to store a 60 cu ft bottle on the same stand if you need more N2.
Here's a picture showing the stand:
RSR makes other carts that have storage specifically for larger N2 cylinders:
Here's a picture of another cart:
This cart is a little less expensive than the other and can be configured
several different ways depending on your needs. If you look at the picture
you'll see the opening for a Nitrogen cylinder to be stored bottom Right.
Here's another configuration:
09-01-2016, 11:18 AM
#18
Drifting
Thread Starter
To continue this thread, I am just jotting this stuff down as I encounter it...please correct my mistakes and add on! I am novice.
Consumables
If you self support you will need a good relationship with a vendor for consumables. I frankly haven't found one vendor that has the bits I prefer all in one place so I use a combination of local vendor Winding Road Racing, Amazon Prime, and Vivid out of AZ. OGracing is also excellent. It's nice when they are PCA and Rennlist sponsors.
Consumables like:
- endless brake fluid (or your fav)
- performance friction pads
- rotors
So that brings up the conversation with spare parts. You can call PMNA and request getting on the list to order parts. The previous owner of my car did just that, I haven't done that just yet. You will need a Cup manual or PET from them so you know the part numbers to order. At major events they have a parts rig you can buy from. Otherwise you can use a local race shop that has an account with them.
Lots of parts on the cup are consumables like:
- axles
- wheel nuts/axle
- suspension bits
- brake bits
- windshields (which they don't have on trailer)
All the stuff that are on the spares lists..
Fuel
You likely can't run pump gas. My ECU (2001 Motroninc 5.2.2) is setup with a PMNA flash from 2009 that requires 100+ octane fuel. You will need an account with VP or Sonoco fuels. I use VP because they are local (TX) and I can drive and pick up a drum or have it deliverEd to my home track. For VP just call the distributors listed on the website. I use 30 gallon drums because of size/weight.
In most states you can haul 55gallons of fuel without signage and other DOT issues. Check your local regulations. We have hauled a drum in the trailer for years this way. Just remember it's a bomb. Carry a fire extinguisher. Tie it down!
Northern tool has a hand crank that screws into the bung on the drum. There are electric ones too, but I prefer hand when near gigantic amounts of explosive liquid.
You may want dump cans as well depending on your setup and if you do enduros. I use a huge funnel to fuel from the hand crank, no mess.
Tires
This is a big topic. I am on Pirellis for PCA. This means you have to buy from JX2. They are at PCA races and offer services. Just call them.
http://jx2pg.com
That said, I also purchased used from usedracingtires.com. They ship to your door. I use a local race shop to mount and balance them. This also gives me a good time for the wheels to get inspected. The BBS 3 piece wheels on most cups are aging, they do require maintenance. I have the shop torque check them, check the stems, and check for leaks. Plus old tire disposal is handled by them.
I haven't raced GTC3 yet, but I have raced PCA a lot. This leads me to believe that a race weekend will mean new slicks for each qual. I suspect if you self support you won't qual and race on new sets, but I would love to hear what the state of the art is.
Also, depending on the number of sets of wheels you have, you may en up going back and forth to get sets mounted a lot. This can jeopardize qualify and race times. So plan ahead is my 2 cents. The weekend has enough stress without worrying if you will have rubber in time. Also. You will want some sort of wagon to transport tires around, a if you are cool, some motorized thing to pull it. Yes, even in club racing. I suspect the veteran PCA GTC3 racers have loads of advice here, probably some considered competitive advantage.
If you race NASA GTS or SCCA your tires may be different and thus the whole deal is different.
I guess this leads to talking about setup, which is a whole huge entry on its own..
Consumables
If you self support you will need a good relationship with a vendor for consumables. I frankly haven't found one vendor that has the bits I prefer all in one place so I use a combination of local vendor Winding Road Racing, Amazon Prime, and Vivid out of AZ. OGracing is also excellent. It's nice when they are PCA and Rennlist sponsors.
Consumables like:
- endless brake fluid (or your fav)
- performance friction pads
- rotors
So that brings up the conversation with spare parts. You can call PMNA and request getting on the list to order parts. The previous owner of my car did just that, I haven't done that just yet. You will need a Cup manual or PET from them so you know the part numbers to order. At major events they have a parts rig you can buy from. Otherwise you can use a local race shop that has an account with them.
Lots of parts on the cup are consumables like:
- axles
- wheel nuts/axle
- suspension bits
- brake bits
- windshields (which they don't have on trailer)
All the stuff that are on the spares lists..
Fuel
You likely can't run pump gas. My ECU (2001 Motroninc 5.2.2) is setup with a PMNA flash from 2009 that requires 100+ octane fuel. You will need an account with VP or Sonoco fuels. I use VP because they are local (TX) and I can drive and pick up a drum or have it deliverEd to my home track. For VP just call the distributors listed on the website. I use 30 gallon drums because of size/weight.
In most states you can haul 55gallons of fuel without signage and other DOT issues. Check your local regulations. We have hauled a drum in the trailer for years this way. Just remember it's a bomb. Carry a fire extinguisher. Tie it down!
Northern tool has a hand crank that screws into the bung on the drum. There are electric ones too, but I prefer hand when near gigantic amounts of explosive liquid.
You may want dump cans as well depending on your setup and if you do enduros. I use a huge funnel to fuel from the hand crank, no mess.
Tires
This is a big topic. I am on Pirellis for PCA. This means you have to buy from JX2. They are at PCA races and offer services. Just call them.
http://jx2pg.com
That said, I also purchased used from usedracingtires.com. They ship to your door. I use a local race shop to mount and balance them. This also gives me a good time for the wheels to get inspected. The BBS 3 piece wheels on most cups are aging, they do require maintenance. I have the shop torque check them, check the stems, and check for leaks. Plus old tire disposal is handled by them.
I haven't raced GTC3 yet, but I have raced PCA a lot. This leads me to believe that a race weekend will mean new slicks for each qual. I suspect if you self support you won't qual and race on new sets, but I would love to hear what the state of the art is.
Also, depending on the number of sets of wheels you have, you may en up going back and forth to get sets mounted a lot. This can jeopardize qualify and race times. So plan ahead is my 2 cents. The weekend has enough stress without worrying if you will have rubber in time. Also. You will want some sort of wagon to transport tires around, a if you are cool, some motorized thing to pull it. Yes, even in club racing. I suspect the veteran PCA GTC3 racers have loads of advice here, probably some considered competitive advantage.
If you race NASA GTS or SCCA your tires may be different and thus the whole deal is different.
I guess this leads to talking about setup, which is a whole huge entry on its own..
09-01-2016, 05:35 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
I have gotten a lot of my cup parts and consumables from Demon Speed Motorsports...They can source a lot of the parts either from either motorsports or others. They also have a line of engineered parts that they produce including suspension parts, PCA legal wing uprights, mufflers, and other components for the cars.
They started out as self supporters themselves and saw a need in the marketplace for someone who had these kinds of parts all in one place. Focusing on the race cars rather than the street cars. Good guys and good service, I have been happy dealing with them !
They started out as self supporters themselves and saw a need in the marketplace for someone who had these kinds of parts all in one place. Focusing on the race cars rather than the street cars. Good guys and good service, I have been happy dealing with them !
09-01-2016, 11:39 PM
#21
Nordschleife Master
Let me add a few things off the top of my head:
1) Milwaukee 1/2" Impact Gun for the Centerlocks (30 and 32mm deep impact sockets)
2) Spare red keepers for wheels and for hood and trunk
3) Spare stub axles (holding axles into wheel bearings and then wheel to uprights)
4) Spare axle nuts
5) Lots of rubber hoses for around the car
6) Spark Plugs and Coils
7) Wheel Bearings and Wheel Bearing Tool (Baum Kit)
8) Clearly Brake Pads
9) Side Radiator - Get Aluminum one and will work on either side
10) CHF202 - Power Steering Fluid
11) Spare suspension nuts. 13mm, 16mm, 18mm etc. They do loosen and just in case...
12) Paint Pen - To mark fasteners after torquing with a GOOOOOOD torque wrench. Step 1) THROW AWAY THE CRAFTSMAN
13) LOCTITE.... Race Car. Everything loosens up.
14) Axle Bolts (just bring them....)
15) Battery (especially if using small unit for weight. THEY FAIL. And then also a charger)
16) ZIP TIES OF ALL SIZES. Silly ones that are 2' long may still be needed at some point....
These are just a few of the things that I think are necessities as spares. I carry much more. And within a few seasons on a single car we have used everyone of them.
1) Milwaukee 1/2" Impact Gun for the Centerlocks (30 and 32mm deep impact sockets)
2) Spare red keepers for wheels and for hood and trunk
3) Spare stub axles (holding axles into wheel bearings and then wheel to uprights)
4) Spare axle nuts
5) Lots of rubber hoses for around the car
6) Spark Plugs and Coils
7) Wheel Bearings and Wheel Bearing Tool (Baum Kit)
8) Clearly Brake Pads
9) Side Radiator - Get Aluminum one and will work on either side
10) CHF202 - Power Steering Fluid
11) Spare suspension nuts. 13mm, 16mm, 18mm etc. They do loosen and just in case...
12) Paint Pen - To mark fasteners after torquing with a GOOOOOOD torque wrench. Step 1) THROW AWAY THE CRAFTSMAN
13) LOCTITE.... Race Car. Everything loosens up.
14) Axle Bolts (just bring them....)
15) Battery (especially if using small unit for weight. THEY FAIL. And then also a charger)
16) ZIP TIES OF ALL SIZES. Silly ones that are 2' long may still be needed at some point....
These are just a few of the things that I think are necessities as spares. I carry much more. And within a few seasons on a single car we have used everyone of them.
09-02-2016, 10:59 AM
#22
Rennlist Member
Let me add a few things off the top of my head:
1) Milwaukee 1/2" Impact Gun for the Centerlocks (30 and 32mm deep impact sockets)
2) Spare red keepers for wheels and for hood and trunk
3) Spare stub axles (holding axles into wheel bearings and then wheel to uprights)
4) Spare axle nuts
5) Lots of rubber hoses for around the car
6) Spark Plugs and Coils
7) Wheel Bearings and Wheel Bearing Tool (Baum Kit)
8) Clearly Brake Pads
9) Side Radiator - Get Aluminum one and will work on either side
10) CHF202 - Power Steering Fluid
11) Spare suspension nuts. 13mm, 16mm, 18mm etc. They do loosen and just in case...
12) Paint Pen - To mark fasteners after torquing with a GOOOOOOD torque wrench. Step 1) THROW AWAY THE CRAFTSMAN
13) LOCTITE.... Race Car. Everything loosens up.
14) Axle Bolts (just bring them....)
15) Battery (especially if using small unit for weight. THEY FAIL. And then also a charger)
16) ZIP TIES OF ALL SIZES. Silly ones that are 2' long may still be needed at some point....
These are just a few of the things that I think are necessities as spares. I carry much more. And within a few seasons on a single car we have used everyone of them.
1) Milwaukee 1/2" Impact Gun for the Centerlocks (30 and 32mm deep impact sockets)
2) Spare red keepers for wheels and for hood and trunk
3) Spare stub axles (holding axles into wheel bearings and then wheel to uprights)
4) Spare axle nuts
5) Lots of rubber hoses for around the car
6) Spark Plugs and Coils
7) Wheel Bearings and Wheel Bearing Tool (Baum Kit)
8) Clearly Brake Pads
9) Side Radiator - Get Aluminum one and will work on either side
10) CHF202 - Power Steering Fluid
11) Spare suspension nuts. 13mm, 16mm, 18mm etc. They do loosen and just in case...
12) Paint Pen - To mark fasteners after torquing with a GOOOOOOD torque wrench. Step 1) THROW AWAY THE CRAFTSMAN
13) LOCTITE.... Race Car. Everything loosens up.
14) Axle Bolts (just bring them....)
15) Battery (especially if using small unit for weight. THEY FAIL. And then also a charger)
16) ZIP TIES OF ALL SIZES. Silly ones that are 2' long may still be needed at some point....
These are just a few of the things that I think are necessities as spares. I carry much more. And within a few seasons on a single car we have used everyone of them.
and I say this sincerely. check into getting a qualified person who works on these cars to crew for you, or go with a shop that supports these cars.
the money you spend daily for him or her could potentially save you ten times that amount. ie an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!!
09-02-2016, 05:29 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Great post.
Bob, #9 true about the 996, but not on the 997 (I know this is focused on the 996, but thought I would mention).
Extra set of wheels. I mean 3 drys and one rain. Wheels cost about as much as tires, so spending the cost of one set of tires just so you can run them until you are really done with them will pay you back within a year.
Front brake rotors too. Those things can sneak up on you.
Brake ducts. Not hard to loose one if you go off.
Splitters. Again, not hard to loose one if you go off. (yes, KG you are right, we will disassociate the late splitter with the early cars on the site. Just have not had a chance to do it yet)
The stub axles (that Bob already mentioned). We have seen the threads on these fatigue pretty badly, so not a bad maintenance item.
Spare suspension arms.
It all depends on how bad you want to stay on track. We take a lot of parts to the track and sometimes still have a car go into the trailer early because of an unexpected break or an off track.
Thanks
Ed
Bob, #9 true about the 996, but not on the 997 (I know this is focused on the 996, but thought I would mention).
Extra set of wheels. I mean 3 drys and one rain. Wheels cost about as much as tires, so spending the cost of one set of tires just so you can run them until you are really done with them will pay you back within a year.
Front brake rotors too. Those things can sneak up on you.
Brake ducts. Not hard to loose one if you go off.
Splitters. Again, not hard to loose one if you go off. (yes, KG you are right, we will disassociate the late splitter with the early cars on the site. Just have not had a chance to do it yet)
The stub axles (that Bob already mentioned). We have seen the threads on these fatigue pretty badly, so not a bad maintenance item.
Spare suspension arms.
It all depends on how bad you want to stay on track. We take a lot of parts to the track and sometimes still have a car go into the trailer early because of an unexpected break or an off track.
Thanks
Ed
09-05-2016, 10:22 AM
#24
Air Jacks:
You will need to get around 400PSI to lift the car. AirGas has the K sized cylinders of Nitrogen for this purpose. You will need a high pressure regulator, high pressure hose, and a wand.
Gas Cylinder:
Nitrogen. Get an account at AirGas locally. They also have regulators, but are a bit more expensive.
You will need to get around 400PSI to lift the car. AirGas has the K sized cylinders of Nitrogen for this purpose. You will need a high pressure regulator, high pressure hose, and a wand.
Gas Cylinder:
Nitrogen. Get an account at AirGas locally. They also have regulators, but are a bit more expensive.
The tires cold are terrible and until there is heat in them the car will be horrible.
Keep track of normal temps for gearbox, oil, tires, etc. Keep good notes. Keep good notes on hours of everything. Your first day is a good time to get a notebook started. I log hours on MoTeC, YMMV. You or the next owner will appreciate it later.
Trailering
A cup is very low and will need special care when trailering.
- Use the tie down loops that came with the cup that lock onto the centerlock wheels. This makes it much easier to tie it down. This also means you need a way to pull off the wheels in the pits. See above.
A cup is very low and will need special care when trailering.
- Use the tie down loops that came with the cup that lock onto the centerlock wheels. This makes it much easier to tie it down. This also means you need a way to pull off the wheels in the pits. See above.
What you are telling about removing the wheels in the pits is true, regardless of how you fix the car. I would add to NEVER trailer the car on good tires that you still plan on running. You want these stored away and kept in good shape, especially after the event because otherwise:
- your straps will loosen as the tires lose pressure when cooling down on the trailer
- you will have the time of your life offloading the car next time because the rubber of the slicks will be stuck to the floor of your trailer.
I always change wheels on the car in the morning (I have some "concrete" Michelins that are about 6 years old on a separate set of rims for that
), and when done remove the wheels and put the transportation wheels back on in the evening.After each session I also put the car on the jacks so the tires cool down evenly and don't get stuck to the pitbox floor.
- Race Ramps or 2x10's will be needed for almost every trailer to get it on there without splitter disasters.
Big advantage for the 997 : you can simply remove the splitter before putting the car on the trailer. 996 splitter is screwed into the bumper.
- Use a winch as you can. The clutch will get worn out quickly using it to drive onto/into trailers.
My 2 cents
09-05-2016, 11:35 AM
#25
Rennlist Member
Whew, so many ***** in the air, so much hassle! Anyone compared the costs per racing hour of self-supporting a 6cup vs full "arrive & drive" shop support on a Spec Boxster? Serious question.
09-05-2016, 12:15 PM
#26
You call it hassle.
We call it #dedication
There are some organizers here that have an open bar after the last session of the track day. By the time I am finished loading the van and the trailer there is nothing left for me to drink and everybody is already heading home.
We call it #dedication
There are some organizers here that have an open bar after the last session of the track day. By the time I am finished loading the van and the trailer there is nothing left for me to drink and everybody is already heading home.
09-05-2016, 12:22 PM
#27
Drifting
Thread Starter
I self supported when I ran SPBOX. Same hassles, lower costs. So you have a point.
But, guys like me like to get dirty. It's part of the joy. I don't want an "executive" experience. I do my own alignments, etc. sure I use a very reputable shop to check the car annually and do the big things. Yes, I have a driving coach, yes, someone who knows these cars is important to have around.
So It's not just about cost. Self supporting may not even be cheaper in the end. But the knowledge and joy these cars give is awesome. Plus knowing your car intimately just makes you a more rounded and perhaps better driver. It's a time/reward trade off that's unique to each.
But, guys like me like to get dirty. It's part of the joy. I don't want an "executive" experience. I do my own alignments, etc. sure I use a very reputable shop to check the car annually and do the big things. Yes, I have a driving coach, yes, someone who knows these cars is important to have around.
So It's not just about cost. Self supporting may not even be cheaper in the end. But the knowledge and joy these cars give is awesome. Plus knowing your car intimately just makes you a more rounded and perhaps better driver. It's a time/reward trade off that's unique to each.
09-05-2016, 12:40 PM
#28
I'd rather do as the guys in the pitboxes next to me. Arrive in the morning in my Ferrari 458 Speciale. Hop out, put the battle suit on. Hop in the warmed up Huracan GT3 on tire warmers, supported by 2 to 4 people. Do my lapping. Drink a glass of champagne at the end of the day and drive home in my Ferrari.
But I don't think it will happen in this lifetime
2 weeks ago I was sharing the track with about 5 991 Cups that participated in the Supercup race at Spa a couple of weeks later. You can imagine what that looked like, next to my little van and open trailer (not even mentioning the speed difference on the track ).
My car was the oldest of the bunch, 2nd oldest was about 10 years younger
But I don't think it will happen in this lifetime
2 weeks ago I was sharing the track with about 5 991 Cups that participated in the Supercup race at Spa a couple of weeks later. You can imagine what that looked like, next to my little van and open trailer
(not even mentioning the speed difference on the track ). My car was the oldest of the bunch, 2nd oldest was about 10 years younger
09-05-2016, 02:04 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
I'd rather do as the guys in the pitboxes next to me. Arrive in the morning in my Ferrari 458 Speciale. Hop out, put the battle suit on. Hop in the warmed up Huracan GT3 on tire warmers, supported by 2 to 4 people. Do my lapping. Drink a glass of champagne at the end of the day and drive home in my Ferrari.
02-28-2017, 10:52 PM
#30
Drifting
Thread Starter
Just a couple tidbits from running the cup this last weekend...
You don't need safety collars or expensive jack stands for just changing tires. The air jacks only lift the car about 9" so most typical jack stands are too short. Most pro teams just use a 4x4 or 4x6 block of wood cut to 9". Cheap. You use the air jacks and once the car is in the air put the blocks under the jack points. In reality you only need 3 ( one on either front position ) because the car is so stiff, but I used 4 just to be safe. Works like a charm.
The taller wing risers are an advantage if you don't already have them.
A huge thank you to Topp racing for fixing my coolant leak. Also, the bleeder tab on the coolant res should be in the up position. Check it, they can fall down.
You don't need safety collars or expensive jack stands for just changing tires. The air jacks only lift the car about 9" so most typical jack stands are too short. Most pro teams just use a 4x4 or 4x6 block of wood cut to 9". Cheap. You use the air jacks and once the car is in the air put the blocks under the jack points. In reality you only need 3 ( one on either front position ) because the car is so stiff, but I used 4 just to be safe. Works like a charm.
The taller wing risers are an advantage if you don't already have them.
A huge thank you to Topp racing for fixing my coolant leak. Also, the bleeder tab on the coolant res should be in the up position. Check it, they can fall down.