Q&A

Allow me to politely disagree with that ;-)

First life cycle of a Cup car is hard core racing with pro teams.
It then goes to the well-off amateurs with support.
After that it goes into a life cycle of amateurs who do it them self for their first couple of years racing,
and/or track days.

Then the car is around 10 years old and becomes eligible for classic race series

You can then mirror the above from amateurs to professional,
classic race teams entering very high-end prestigious classic racing events.

I have been to a couple of these events where classic porsche's were raced extremely hard by very talented drivers.
Some ex F1 guest drivers. Think there goes even more money around in classic car racing than in the first life cycle of a Cup / Race car.

.

HiWind

Per this survey, quite a few are actually here on RL ... And total prod of 935

996 cup car survey

fstockcarrera

I would think that only 2003-05 will retain their value. You see this already. So only 340 of the total

Ted in Rochester

As a gross generality, I expect you are right to say that the 04-05 cars will hold their value best. Even so, early 6-Cups can be updated and many have been. In that case, I would think condition would become the prime determinant of value. Cool provenance never hurts as well. Even though most of us like to think that we pay for performance, I suspect that the Cup that Jorg Bergmeister won the 2001 Super Cup in would go for a premium, all things being equal. Makes me wonder where Jorg's car is. Anyone know?

tcsracing1

i must say that is an excelent evaluation!

ir_fuel

Not entirely. The upgrades done to the roll cage for instance.

ir_fuel

But the 964/993 production numbers are a lot lower too.

Depends how you look at it. From what I know parts are becoming rare and very expensive (front and rear bumpers for instance.) Also, I haven't explored any alternatives tbh, but rebuilding a 996 engine through the official channel is more expensive than rebuilding a 997 or 991.

Stupid example: front brake ducts. 996 Cup version was like 250 euro / piece. I lost one on the track. Got both replaced with 997 Cup versions that were (I kid you not, can show you the invoice from Prospeed Competition) 3 euro / piece. New!

A 997 front bumper is/was also a lot cheaper than a 996 one (original parts).

VermontWayne

I see reference to 240 993 Cup Cars being produced but I believe that number is low. Over four years (1994-1997) approximately 430 993 Cup Cars were produced. I have the exact numbers by year at home but I'm in Vermont now. The one reconciling item that may explain the difference between the approx. 430 and the 240 quoted above is the 911 Cup 3.8 (315 HP) versus the 911 Cup 3.8 RSR (349 HP) designation. I only have the combined total (the 430 approx.).
What is your source for the 240 993 Cup Cars?

VermontWayne

Back in Boston now and checked my reference material. According to the information I have, the exact number of 993 Super Cups Porsche produced between 1994 and 1997 is 441 as follows:


Year Serial # Range Total Production
1994 WPOZZZ99ZRS398001 - 8100 100
1995 WPOZZZ99ZSS398001 - 8110 110
1996 WPOZZZ99ZTS398001 - 8117 117*
1997 WPOZZZ99ZVS398001 - 8114 114


Total Production over four years 441


I own WPOZZZ99ZVS398112, I believe the third to the last one produced in 1997 and ever.


* I looked in my Porsche Motorsport 911 Cup 3.8 Technical Information manual which I believe is the version printed after the 1996 production was completed. That publication lists the chassis number range for 1996 as WPOZZZ99ZTS398061 - 398117. This leads me to believe that only 56 911 Cup 3.8 (315 HP version) were produced in 1996 and thus the rest of the Cup car production in 1996, cars 398001 through 398061 (61 cars), were the 911 Cup 3.8 RSR (349 HP version). I expect everyone knows it is the 315 HP version that was used in the Super Cup races as a warm up for Formula 1 races in Europe during that period. The 349 HP RSR versions of the car were used in the Carrera Cup and other racing venues.
If this trend is representative of the split between the two versions then the production of 240 911 Cup 3.8 cars over the four year period cited by another forum member seems reasonable.


Other Rennlist members have speculated that many/probably most of these cars no longer exist (racing carnage, cannibalized, not repaired according to proper specs, etc.). I concur. This has to be one of the principal reasons the value of those Cup Cars properly maintained has spiked in the last few years. And they are the last of the air cooled Porsches. I'm glad I've kept mine in pristine condition.


If anyone has reliable data on the 315HP versus the 349 HP RSR versions of the 993 Cup Car production, please weigh in. Wayne

analogmike

Here's an ad I cut out of Autoweek when they were selling the cars new, wish I could have bought one back then! RSR or Cup??? I guess these were the RSR version.

http://analogman.com/911/autoweekads.pdf

Steve113

Mike don't look at stuff like that its only torture

VermontWayne

Mike, thanks for the post of the AutoWeek ads. As you note, the two ads that relate to the 993 RSR are the 349HP version, not the Super Cup 3.8 315 HP version. The third ad relates to the turbo charged GT2 which was also available, at least in Europe, as a street version. I don't believe there were any GT2s included in the production numbers I metioned in earlier emails. Be well. Wayne

tcsracing1

OT: what is the value difference between 993 cup, 993RSR and GT2 evo?

VermontWayne

My belief is there are not enough 993 GT2s in existence (and thus little sales activity) to constitute a market with useful measures of value for those cars. On the 993 Cup 3.8 (315 HP) versus the 993 3.8 RSR (349 HP), my guess is there are few of either version that haven't been modified from their factory configuration, especially the 993 RSRs. The Super Cup series in which the 315 HP cars were run had strict configuration rules...which PCA Club Racing class GTC2 required as well. So there are definitely some of the 993 CUP (315 HP) cars around in their original factory configuration. Presumably being true to the original factory configuration will/has had a positive impact on value of these cars. That all said, I'm not even sure most people view the 993 RSR cars the same way they view the Super Cup cars simply due to the well known Super Cup race series that Porsche has supported for over 20 years and is directly linked to Formula 1 racing. Net, net, I don't believe there is any useful information available to measure/determine the difference in values between these 993 based factory race cars.

993PET

This car was for sale in Germany a few months ago:

-993 Gt2 bj.1996 update evo 1998 racing history with good , le mans , daytona 24 , bbr -series , fia - gt . motor new overhauled, very good condition in white , ex - Seikel motorsport
Regular price € 795t