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I want to buy a cup car, need some input

 
Old 12-06-2013, 11:43 AM
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tiara4300
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Default I want to buy a cup car, need some input

I used to race Formula Atlantic and and some Ferrari 355 challenge in the 90s. Lately been doing some lapping days and caught the bug again. I want to buy a car that will be safe and reliable just to run on open track days and lapping days at the Florida tracks. No competition for now.
I'm ruling out Ferrari challenge cars due to the expense of running. My three choices now are 996 cup, 997 cup, or a Radical SR3.

Can some of you who are more seasoned in the cup cars give me some pointers.

I want to spend no more then $100k all in for a car fully updated and freshened ready to take to the track and run. I own a European car repair shop and hope to do the majority of the maintenance in house. Obviously I will refer to the specialists for needed parts and updates.

So here are my questions.

First off am I getting in over my head buying a factory cup car?

Should I try and source one in the States or do I need to bring one in from Europe?
Are there any race shops or brokers here that specialize in these cars I should talk to?

Now lets touch on costs of 996 vs 997. Obviously I like the sequential shifter in the 997 , but would that be an expensive service item for just track days.

Since the 996s are a bit older are there any calendar items that I need to make sure have been addressed? I understand safety items will need replacement and will need a full PPI. Are there any parts for the 996 cup cars that are obsolete or just unavailable that are no fly items?

I know these seem like basic questions. I am a properly trained driver with 20+ years of track experience and was a Skip Barber instructor for a bit while driving in the Barber Saab Pro Series. I would really appreciate any advice from your experiences.
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Old 12-06-2013, 12:43 PM
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I won't attempt to answer any Cup questions, because, well...I'm a diehard air-cooled guy.

But.

I would advise you base part (a large part) of your purchase choice on the assumption that you will go racing again. Track day fun will last about 4 events before you're fully back in the saddle and then I'll wager that only racing again will satisfy the itch.

That said, virtually any Cup (6 or 7, let your budget decide) which hasn't been modified out of its GTC class (3 to 5) could be a good fit for you.

Have fun!!!
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Old 12-06-2013, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by KaiB View Post
That said, virtually any Cup (6 or 7, let your budget decide) which hasn't been modified out of its GTC class (3 to 5) could be a good fit for you.

Have fun!!!
Don't discount a modified car, they are cheaper to run (brakes, optional clutches, home built motors etc) and the classes are getting big. GTA2 is one of the biggest and most competitive classes now.
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Old 12-06-2013, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by analogmike View Post
Don't discount a modified car, they are cheaper to run (brakes, optional clutches, home built motors etc) and the classes are getting big. GTA2 is one of the biggest and most competitive classes now.
Well! Whodathunk...this actually makes sense.
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Old 12-06-2013, 03:41 PM
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Yep, that one that sold below was amazing....
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Old 12-06-2013, 04:28 PM
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Grab a pre-owned Cayman race car and dont look back.
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Old 12-06-2013, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by tiara4300 View Post
I used to race Formula Atlantic and and some Ferrari 355 challenge in the 90s. Lately been doing some lapping days and caught the bug again. I want to buy a car that will be safe and reliable just to run on open track days and lapping days at the Florida tracks. No competition for now.
I'm ruling out Ferrari challenge cars due to the expense of running. My three choices now are 996 cup, 997 cup, or a Radical SR3.

Can some of you who are more seasoned in the cup cars give me some pointers.

I want to spend no more then $100k all in for a car fully updated and freshened ready to take to the track and run. I own a European car repair shop and hope to do the majority of the maintenance in house. Obviously I will refer to the specialists for needed parts and updates.

So here are my questions.

First off am I getting in over my head buying a factory cup car?

Should I try and source one in the States or do I need to bring one in from Europe?
Are there any race shops or brokers here that specialize in these cars I should talk to?

Now lets touch on costs of 996 vs 997. Obviously I like the sequential shifter in the 997 , but would that be an expensive service item for just track days.

Since the 996s are a bit older are there any calendar items that I need to make sure have been addressed? I understand safety items will need replacement and will need a full PPI. Are there any parts for the 996 cup cars that are obsolete or just unavailable that are no fly items?

I know these seem like basic questions. I am a properly trained driver with 20+ years of track experience and was a Skip Barber instructor for a bit while driving in the Barber Saab Pro Series. I would really appreciate any advice from your experiences.


well just recently went through this decision tree. and although am a current racer going from GT-1 I had almost same wants you had but for racing
same budget

IMHO without a doubt a 996 Cup car would be the way to go

why, well factory built purpose car probably one of the safer cars
the expense jumping to a 997 puts you out of the budget plus love the six speed

as for people who will start talking expenses of running a Cup, since you plan on using it as more of a DE car the costs could be lower in rebuild times for engine and tranny

guys not shifting at full out redline and being more conservative are now seeing a solid 100+ hours of safe reliable track time

Im in florida PM me if you want to discuss who takes car of these around here!

there are several very good cars for sale right here in the states,, several on rennlist

You go with the 996 Cup you won't regret it
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Old 12-06-2013, 07:24 PM
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Thanks for the advice Tom. Can you put a passenger seat in a cup car? About what does a 100 hour engine service run from one of the top shops? What about times and rebuild costs for the trannys (manual and sequential). What fuel do you run ? Are there any teams that will rent a car for a test day? I've been driving 996 Turbos on the road for years but never tracked my road cars.
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Old 12-06-2013, 07:38 PM
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I had a 2002 track car and street car so …

you could always DE your TT?

yes you can easily put a second seat in a Cup and good learning tool

experts on rebuilds can comment but depends on what the engine needs but can guess around 25k and tranny 10k but large deltas. the 997 tranny much more expensive rebuild and why I stayed away from the 997

98 octane and that can run 7-8 bucks a gallon at the track. you can I think de-tune the ECU for pump gas but again I am a driver not a car expert like you so can only share what I have been involved with

I will be running my Cup at Sebring with Chin dec 14-15 with several other 996 and 997 Cups to get ready for the PCA and PBOC races in Jan if you can make it over you could check things out and do a little local networking!

you can use my email [email protected] and we can talk further about the Florida tracks

I also looked into the "rental" for a day Cup deal, forget it it is not worth it like 6k for a day!! (yes that is what I was quoted from a reputable florida Cup shop) so….

tom
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Old 12-07-2013, 09:57 AM
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Tiara4300, do a search under buying a Cup on you'll find a bunch of older threads that answer a lot of your questions. I went thru a similar exercise a couple of years ago and found the reading worthwhile. Be aware there are some sharing mis-information but it usually comes from those who've never owned or driven a 996 or 997 Cup. I do suggest speaking with a reputable shop that has experiences with Cups and you'll get the information and guidance necessary to make an educated decision. Good luck.
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Old 12-07-2013, 10:13 AM
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Let me know if you need any help, would be glad to give you some input based on several mba's in the subject....
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Old 12-07-2013, 12:33 PM
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Call Glen, he seems to know quite a bit and was very helpful when I was looking for one.
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Old 12-07-2013, 01:24 PM
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There's a really good 2004 996 Cup available on this forum :-)
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Old 12-07-2013, 01:53 PM
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I have owned a Radical SR 3 and a Prosport. I currently own a 997 Cup and a new 991 Cup. The Radicals are a lot of fun to drive, somewhat less expensive to run and repair but nowhere near as reliable as a cup car. They are not as safe as a cup car, if that is a concern. I think Radical has improved them, so i would gravitate to a newer lower time model if you go that route.

In a lapping/club racing environment, I believe you can get as much as 100 hours out of a cup motor. There will be a few early generation 997 cups on the market as current 991 Cups are phased into the market and you may be able to find a good one. You can get a Radical to rent or test at the Palm Beach track through Barry Smith (516) 526-5614 who runs Radical of Florida. Bob Varella at PBOC may have a few cups you can test. He is Florida based also and runs some at the club level in the PBOC series.

There are several serious IMSA teams based in Florida also (NGT, Performance Tech, Alex Job) but they will want more money to let you test and they will be running newer 997s (probably not what you are looking for) . A 996 may be a good option for you if the tranny rebuild cost is a concern, but the 997 will probably be similar to run excepting that cost item.

One note of caution: too much focus on the headline price of a used race car is a mistake. Who campaigned it, who maintained it, what is the status of key components relative to known useful life are areas to pay careful attention to. I've made this mistake in the past. One other positive on a cup car is that it is substantially more liquid than virtually any other race car on the market you choose to sell it. Feel free to PM me. David
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Old 12-07-2013, 02:32 PM
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Agreed with above. I will post again what I've posted for over a decade...

Safety. Top priority and nothing else comes close.

Reliability . In a decade and 15 cups. No engine failures, trans failures, halfshafts etc...in fact not even a wheel bearing....

I put 17000 km on my 997 with zero failures, ever. Car had the world challenge motor for a long time, the 2 ring, 30 hour sprint version. It lived at 8800 rpm it's whole time with me and no failures at all...

With current prices , they are a no brainer. Start with a 6 cup and learn, dirt cheap and abs will clean up many many mistakes. Make the same mistake in a 7(baby rsr) and you will be replacing a front clip or rebuilding your motor and gearbox from backing it into the wall...

Call when you need input. I just race, don't work on them and have no vested interest in any car we will discuss.
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