Interesting exhaust comparison - Cup / M&M exhausts
12-29-2012, 08:48 PM
#1
Banned
Thread Starter
Interesting exhaust comparison - Cup / M&M exhausts
Guys, even though the tests were not performed on a Cup, we all know how similar those engines are and also that Cup being 3.6 or 3.8 usually put down more power than it's street versions. That being said, I had a client's car with a 2006 997 Cup exhaust system (exhaust and headers) that got replaced for our M&M system.
Here is the post on the 997 GT3 section.
Thank you and happy new year.
I'll try to explain and expose the facts the best way possible. The tests were performed for comparison purpose only. I use what I sell, and I only sell because I believe to be one of the best products in the market for those looking for true power gains, weight savings, and sound improvement.
No this system is not recommended for those driving to the church on a Sunday morning. For those we still have the option to use different products that will retain the valves, and of course at cost of weight and power/torque.
With a little bit more time Today, and with only 2 cars scheduled, we had the opportunity to hook up torque readings also.
All tests were performed same day same dyno, and are for comparison only.
Dynometer used was a dynojet, so numbers can't be altered or fabricated by changing weight and etc.
Baseline:
Vehicle: 2011 GT3 RS with 2006 CUP exhaust and headers. This system include cats inside the center muffler.
ECU: GIAC ECU reflash
Dyno Numbers: 416WHP / 295 tq. (WHP = wheel Horse Power)
Final result:
Vehicle: 2011 GT3 RS with M&M titanium center muffler (RSR style tips) and headers built to RPW specifications.
ECU: Evomsit custom tune
Dyno Numbers: 440WHP / 310tq
Car goes on the lift for exhaust removal:
This was the best out 5 or 6 pulls to be able to have the highest baseline possible. All runs were pretty close, very consistent car.
Ok, baseline performed, and the numbers are among expected, and close to what I'm used to see on stock 997.2 GT3RS.
Now time for new system:
Customer opted for the Titanium muffler for weight saving, and RSR style tips, after that the system was manufactured by M&M under our requirements and needs.
Great work as usual
Car on the lift, out with Cup system and in with M&M
New....
Ok, now time for the first start:
Sorry for those who don't like, but I'm a little biased, this system sounds AMAZING.
Next step, I take the car for a drive after the exhaust and headers install. I drove it in low RPMs and right away I could feel the car running a little lean, so that means we have more flow
Throttle response is not perfect and ECU at this point is trying to adjust fuel trims...
I didn't want to change any parameters, no not yet....
So here are the numbers from the M&M exhaust and headers with the GIAC tune.
Already a nice improvement over the CUP system, but ..... still not ideal. We made several runs, and let the car run in partial throttle, so the ECU could re adapt, still not ideal ...
Now, we remove the ECU, and reflash with a custom software from Evomsit.
Results ...
Dyno run from M&M System:
Now the sheet from baseline and final results:
Just remind you that the baseline is not from a stock car, and an already improved Cup car system.
Final impressions:
M&M system had great power and torque gains, with fantastic sound and weight savings, 15WHP and 8tq with system alone. After the re-tune we saw gains of 24WHP and 15tq over the cup system, and much improved drivability, with a fatter and more linear power delivery and at some point the gains were over 30WHP (between 7400RPM and 7800RPM)
For those worried about torque loss, the dyno sheet speaks for itself, and for those who claims that deleting the side mufflers loose power / torque, it's been proved over and over again, on 3.6, 3.8 and 4.0 engines, it's just a matter of having the right engineering.
Here is the post on the 997 GT3 section.
Thank you and happy new year.
I'll try to explain and expose the facts the best way possible. The tests were performed for comparison purpose only. I use what I sell, and I only sell because I believe to be one of the best products in the market for those looking for true power gains, weight savings, and sound improvement.
No this system is not recommended for those driving to the church on a Sunday morning. For those we still have the option to use different products that will retain the valves, and of course at cost of weight and power/torque.
With a little bit more time Today, and with only 2 cars scheduled, we had the opportunity to hook up torque readings also.
All tests were performed same day same dyno, and are for comparison only.
Dynometer used was a dynojet, so numbers can't be altered or fabricated by changing weight and etc.
Baseline:
Vehicle: 2011 GT3 RS with 2006 CUP exhaust and headers. This system include cats inside the center muffler.
ECU: GIAC ECU reflash
Dyno Numbers: 416WHP / 295 tq. (WHP = wheel Horse Power)
Final result:
Vehicle: 2011 GT3 RS with M&M titanium center muffler (RSR style tips) and headers built to RPW specifications.
ECU: Evomsit custom tune
Dyno Numbers: 440WHP / 310tq
Car goes on the lift for exhaust removal:
This was the best out 5 or 6 pulls to be able to have the highest baseline possible. All runs were pretty close, very consistent car.
Ok, baseline performed, and the numbers are among expected, and close to what I'm used to see on stock 997.2 GT3RS.
Now time for new system:
Customer opted for the Titanium muffler for weight saving, and RSR style tips, after that the system was manufactured by M&M under our requirements and needs.
Great work as usual
Car on the lift, out with Cup system and in with M&M
New....
Ok, now time for the first start:
Sorry for those who don't like, but I'm a little biased, this system sounds AMAZING.
Next step, I take the car for a drive after the exhaust and headers install. I drove it in low RPMs and right away I could feel the car running a little lean, so that means we have more flow
Throttle response is not perfect and ECU at this point is trying to adjust fuel trims...
I didn't want to change any parameters, no not yet....
So here are the numbers from the M&M exhaust and headers with the GIAC tune.
Already a nice improvement over the CUP system, but ..... still not ideal. We made several runs, and let the car run in partial throttle, so the ECU could re adapt, still not ideal ...
Now, we remove the ECU, and reflash with a custom software from Evomsit.
Results ...
Dyno run from M&M System:
Now the sheet from baseline and final results:
Just remind you that the baseline is not from a stock car, and an already improved Cup car system.
Final impressions:
M&M system had great power and torque gains, with fantastic sound and weight savings, 15WHP and 8tq with system alone. After the re-tune we saw gains of 24WHP and 15tq over the cup system, and much improved drivability, with a fatter and more linear power delivery and at some point the gains were over 30WHP (between 7400RPM and 7800RPM)
For those worried about torque loss, the dyno sheet speaks for itself, and for those who claims that deleting the side mufflers loose power / torque, it's been proved over and over again, on 3.6, 3.8 and 4.0 engines, it's just a matter of having the right engineering.
Last edited by Eddie - RPW; 12-30-2012 at 12:29 PM.
12-30-2012, 09:50 AM
#2
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Great work on the system! looks like excellent quality just as all M&M systems...
The stock Cup system uses the factory Log manifolds that are in no way good or great for performance work.
Simply replacing the stock Log manifolds with any header will yield the same results...
Thanks for sharing!!
The stock Cup system uses the factory Log manifolds that are in no way good or great for performance work.
Simply replacing the stock Log manifolds with any header will yield the same results...
Thanks for sharing!!
__________________
2016 GT4-R
Rick DeMan
DeMan Motorsport
Upper Nyack, NY
845 727 3070
Porsche Sales & Service
Porsche Race services and parts
www.DeManMotorsport.com
2016 GT4-R
Rick DeMan
DeMan Motorsport
Upper Nyack, NY
845 727 3070
Porsche Sales & Service
Porsche Race services and parts
www.DeManMotorsport.com
12-30-2012, 12:27 PM
#4
Banned
Thread Starter
Thank you for the words, you're correct about that, but after testing more than 15 different cars, and different combinations we learned that is power to be gained specially on the 3.8 engines, even when only replacing the muffler and link pipes, and those are already using the less restrictive header and also cats (997 Cup)
