Running costs.
04-20-2012, 12:34 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
Fact of the matter is, if you want a car that's similar to what you see the guys on TV race and you want to work on becoming a really good driver, it's the perfect tool. There's so much data and experience out there with factory cups (supporting and driving) it's much easier and faster (schedule wise) than building your own. Not to mention, you can compare apples to apples. If you set a time at a track, you can easily find what other guys in (stock) Cup's run and can compare to it. Turn a street car into a race car and the only way for you to know how you're doing is to get a Pro to jump in it and do some laps. And unless you're already a VERY good racer/driver, good luck properly setting up a race car you build yourself. Again, you're only option is to hire a Pro to come help you.
That's my 2cents anyway.
-mike
That's my 2cents anyway.
-mike
04-20-2012, 02:15 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
A factory Cup car is a very well sorted, strong, and reliable race car. Take care of it and it will take care of you.
Fact of the matter is, if you want a car that's similar to what you see the guys on TV race and you want to work on becoming a really good driver, it's the perfect tool. There's so much data and experience out there with factory cups (supporting and driving) it's much easier and faster (schedule wise) than building your own. Not to mention, you can compare apples to apples. If you set a time at a track, you can easily find what other guys in (stock) Cup's run and can compare to it. Turn a street car into a race car and the only way for you to know how you're doing is to get a Pro to jump in it and do some laps. And unless you're already a VERY good racer/driver, good luck properly setting up a race car you build yourself. Again, you're only option is to hire a Pro to come help you.
That's my 2cents anyway.
-mike
Fact of the matter is, if you want a car that's similar to what you see the guys on TV race and you want to work on becoming a really good driver, it's the perfect tool. There's so much data and experience out there with factory cups (supporting and driving) it's much easier and faster (schedule wise) than building your own. Not to mention, you can compare apples to apples. If you set a time at a track, you can easily find what other guys in (stock) Cup's run and can compare to it. Turn a street car into a race car and the only way for you to know how you're doing is to get a Pro to jump in it and do some laps. And unless you're already a VERY good racer/driver, good luck properly setting up a race car you build yourself. Again, you're only option is to hire a Pro to come help you.
That's my 2cents anyway.
-mike
04-20-2012, 02:48 PM
#34
IMO, some of the costs listed in this thread are just to high. It's as if some people looked into getting one, decided for themselves that the possibility of having to pay out for some of the most expensive repairs out weighed the benefit of getting the car and are now justifying their decision by (unconsciously) trying to scare others away.
You should have the means and not want to throw in the towel if you have to fork over some of the cash listed in this thread, but in all honesty you probably won't have to. A factory Cup car is a very well sorted, strong, and reliable race car. Take care of it and it will take care of you.
Fact of the matter is, if you want a car that's similar to what you see the guys on TV race and you want to work on becoming a really good driver, it's the perfect tool. There's so much data and experience out there with factory cups (supporting and driving) it's much easier and faster (schedule wise) than building your own. Not to mention, you can compare apples to apples. If you set a time at a track, you can easily find what other guys in (stock) Cup's run and can compare to it. Turn a street car into a race car and the only way for you to know how you're doing is to get a Pro to jump in it and do some laps. And unless you're already a VERY good racer/driver, good luck properly setting up a race car you build yourself. Again, you're only option is to hire a Pro to come help you.
That's my 2cents anyway.
-mike
You should have the means and not want to throw in the towel if you have to fork over some of the cash listed in this thread, but in all honesty you probably won't have to. A factory Cup car is a very well sorted, strong, and reliable race car. Take care of it and it will take care of you.
Fact of the matter is, if you want a car that's similar to what you see the guys on TV race and you want to work on becoming a really good driver, it's the perfect tool. There's so much data and experience out there with factory cups (supporting and driving) it's much easier and faster (schedule wise) than building your own. Not to mention, you can compare apples to apples. If you set a time at a track, you can easily find what other guys in (stock) Cup's run and can compare to it. Turn a street car into a race car and the only way for you to know how you're doing is to get a Pro to jump in it and do some laps. And unless you're already a VERY good racer/driver, good luck properly setting up a race car you build yourself. Again, you're only option is to hire a Pro to come help you.
That's my 2cents anyway.
-mike
But a GT3 cup is built from a street car chasis using mostly street car parts, and its very easy to convert a GT3 street car into a race car.
A street Gt3 will cost less to run because:
1. Runs on pump gas
2. H pattern box requires less frequency rebuilds and rebuild costs are 50%
3. Street GT3 motor runs on less compression (and variocam), which will give the motor much more longevity
4. Street axles are a fraction of the price of blue PMNA axels
5. In our club there are many GT3 street car-race car builds and many of the motors have been run 3+ seasons as race cars and that was after they spent their previous lives on the street
So I don't see how a street based Gt3 car will be the same to run and maintain than a cup car.
As to how will it be faster? Like John said.
WEIGHT IS KING, with some carbon body parts and small diet, a 997 GT3 car can get down to sub 2600 lbs, variocam for low end out of the corners and abs in the braking zones, and you have a VERY capable car.
Other than that consumable costs for both cars are identical.
04-20-2012, 03:01 PM
#35
The GT3 cups and streets have the same compression. So if you're comfortable running pump gas in a street GT3, you can run it in a cup.
For a 997 the sequential is significantly more expensive - other than that the drivetrain has no differences.
You can also run the black axles on a cup.
I think a LARGE percentage of the costs being quoted here pertain to having professional support and transport at the track.
For a 997 the sequential is significantly more expensive - other than that the drivetrain has no differences.
You can also run the black axles on a cup.
I think a LARGE percentage of the costs being quoted here pertain to having professional support and transport at the track.
04-20-2012, 07:33 PM
#36
Nordschleife Master
If you want to run IMSA looks like running costs just went up. I just got a call from a customer who had sent a gearbox to PMNA for repair of a broken 3rd gear. This is a 2009 Cup. He was told they no longer stock 2009 spec parts and that in addition to 3rd gear he was going to have to buy a bunch of other stuff that updates his gearbox to 2012 spec because those are the only gearbox parts they make any more. He was quoted $11k for what realistically should be a $3000-4000 repair. He's decided he's not gonna run IMSA this year and will stick to PCA GTC class racing because he can still buy a 2009 spec 3rd gear from other aftermarket sources and fix his box somewhere other than PMNA.
So, the answer to the question also involves considering where you want to run the car. Gonna cost you more to run IMSA where you must use Porsche only parts than PCA, POC or PDC where they allow aftermarket suppliers' parts to be used in repair of the vehicles...
So, the answer to the question also involves considering where you want to run the car. Gonna cost you more to run IMSA where you must use Porsche only parts than PCA, POC or PDC where they allow aftermarket suppliers' parts to be used in repair of the vehicles...
04-20-2012, 07:43 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
If you want to run IMSA looks like running costs just went up. I just got a call from a customer who had sent a gearbox to PMNA for repair of a broken 3rd gear. This is a 2009 Cup. He was told they no longer stock 2009 spec parts and that in addition to 3rd gear he was going to have to buy a bunch of other stuff that updates his gearbox to 2012 spec because those are the only gearbox parts they make any more. He was quoted $11k for what realistically should be a $3000-4000 repair.
04-20-2012, 08:15 PM
#38
Nordschleife Master
They've now "redesigned" and updated this gearbox 4 times. It's understandable that they don't want to make 2006 spec parts anymore, but a 2009 vehicle with less than 100 hours on the whole chassis is a car that one should reasonably still be able to buy parts for without being forced to buy 2012 spec stuff. I can go to the dealer and still buy pretty much any service part I want for a 2004 Carrera. Hell, I can order up pretty much any gearbox part I want for a 1987 Carrera. But you can't buy a gear for a 2009 Cup Car?
04-20-2012, 08:53 PM
#39
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
IMO, some of the costs listed in this thread are just to high. It's as if some people looked into getting one, decided for themselves that the possibility of having to pay out for some of the most expensive repairs out weighed the benefit of getting the car and are now justifying their decision by (unconsciously) trying to scare others away.
You should have the means and not want to throw in the towel if you have to fork over some of the cash listed in this thread, but in all honesty you probably won't have to. A factory Cup car is a very well sorted, strong, and reliable race car. Take care of it and it will take care of you.
-mike
You should have the means and not want to throw in the towel if you have to fork over some of the cash listed in this thread, but in all honesty you probably won't have to. A factory Cup car is a very well sorted, strong, and reliable race car. Take care of it and it will take care of you.
-mike
04-20-2012, 09:21 PM
#40
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A GT3 RS is really different than a CUP. Brake system, motor head, clutch, transmission, suspension, wheels (center lock is crap on the street car), car is empty and much lighter than a regular RS, racing roll cage (not a clubsport roll cage), bigger rear wing, air jack, plastic windows, carbon doors, motec system and the list goes on.
Trying to get a GT3 RS to be the same as a CUP, minimum of 60-70k investment.
Trying to get a GT3 RS to be the same as a CUP, minimum of 60-70k investment.
04-20-2012, 11:14 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
A GT3 RS is really different than a CUP. Brake system, motor head, clutch, transmission, suspension, wheels (center lock is crap on the street car), car is empty and much lighter than a regular RS, racing roll cage (not a clubsport roll cage), bigger rear wing, air jack, plastic windows, carbon doors, motec system and the list goes on.
Trying to get a GT3 RS to be the same as a CUP, minimum of 60-70k investment.
Trying to get a GT3 RS to be the same as a CUP, minimum of 60-70k investment.
03-01-2013, 12:48 PM
#42
Advanced
Getting back to costs, I was wondering what the typical costs are for a 996 Cup to be run
as a D/E . I see that the 997 is a big jump most of that being the transmission.
-I hear confilicting reports that engines can last 100+ etc. I guess that is all maintenece and blind luck?
-Where would you put most of the costs if you use the car as a D/E?
I am guessing since you don't have to follow IMSA rules or any rules for that matter there are after market options for brakes/ axels black vs blue etc.
-What about tran/motor rebuilds is there away of cutting costs? I understand performance might drop but should you not increase logiviety?
For me I am looking at entry level, I understand that I will not be the fastest going this route but I would like to step up from a street car to a proper car. Call it playing pretend but it is why most of us do it.
-Is it unrealisitc to run 20 hrs a season for $4-6k. This is not including transportation or fuel.
Do any of the D/E guys run Street spec tires i.e RA1, R888 ,V710 etc?
Thanks for any insight you can give.
as a D/E . I see that the 997 is a big jump most of that being the transmission.
-I hear confilicting reports that engines can last 100+ etc. I guess that is all maintenece and blind luck?
-Where would you put most of the costs if you use the car as a D/E?
I am guessing since you don't have to follow IMSA rules or any rules for that matter there are after market options for brakes/ axels black vs blue etc.
-What about tran/motor rebuilds is there away of cutting costs? I understand performance might drop but should you not increase logiviety?
For me I am looking at entry level, I understand that I will not be the fastest going this route but I would like to step up from a street car to a proper car. Call it playing pretend but it is why most of us do it.
-Is it unrealisitc to run 20 hrs a season for $4-6k. This is not including transportation or fuel.
Do any of the D/E guys run Street spec tires i.e RA1, R888 ,V710 etc?
Thanks for any insight you can give.
03-01-2013, 01:54 PM
#43
996 cup will be most cost effective.
the 996 cup motors can go well past 100 hours if they have been taken care of with maintenance an no overrevs.
If you do the following you can keep costs down:
1. Self support at track
2. buy used slicks from race teams with 1-3 HC (dont waste your time with RA1 and R88, its a race car).
3. Preventative maintenance (engine & trans oil changes every 2-3 weekends).
4. Use non aggressive pads like pagid yellows (fine with 996 cup boosted brakes and abs)
5. Use 100 octane gas - cheap insurance from detonation and engine "should" last longer
6. Have a qualified friend or shop do a full nut and bolt check on the car at the begining of season, and preferably after a few events to make sure nothing is failing like control arms, hubs, wheels...anything that could cost you 10x more if it breaks at speed.
7. HAVE FUN! This is not a cheap sport.
oh and to anser your question. Yes i think $4-$6k for 20hours ($250/hour) is not realistic..sorry these are racer cars and PORSCHE's...."which of the 2 did you think was going to be cheap?" (sorry i love that line
the 996 cup motors can go well past 100 hours if they have been taken care of with maintenance an no overrevs.
If you do the following you can keep costs down:
1. Self support at track
2. buy used slicks from race teams with 1-3 HC (dont waste your time with RA1 and R88, its a race car).
3. Preventative maintenance (engine & trans oil changes every 2-3 weekends).
4. Use non aggressive pads like pagid yellows (fine with 996 cup boosted brakes and abs)
5. Use 100 octane gas - cheap insurance from detonation and engine "should" last longer
6. Have a qualified friend or shop do a full nut and bolt check on the car at the begining of season, and preferably after a few events to make sure nothing is failing like control arms, hubs, wheels...anything that could cost you 10x more if it breaks at speed.
7. HAVE FUN! This is not a cheap sport.
oh and to anser your question. Yes i think $4-$6k for 20hours ($250/hour) is not realistic..sorry these are racer cars and PORSCHE's...."which of the 2 did you think was going to be cheap?" (sorry i love that line
03-01-2013, 02:10 PM
#45
Best way to manage costs is to set yourself a budget, then when the $$$ is finished take a break till next season or raid the cookie jar 
too many variables to give a firm answer. Do a weekend, add up all your bills and them make a budget based on YOUR COSTS, mine are quite different.
Or just do as most do and blindly throw money at it until you have no more money left, but great memories to keep you motivated to make more money to throw away on racing
too many variables to give a firm answer. Do a weekend, add up all your bills and them make a budget based on YOUR COSTS, mine are quite different.
Or just do as most do and blindly throw money at it until you have no more money left, but great memories to keep you motivated to make more money to throw away on racing
