Running costs.
04-18-2012, 07:18 PM
#16
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Agreed,
Cup car costs of $10-20k/ weekend seem a little high for PCA or SCCA sprint races. Maybe not for one of the "Cups". I think if one is local and limited support with a reliable car could be $3-4k for the weekend. Still a lot of money for some "red haze."
Also, if you are "lucky" you could go 5 yrs (20h/yr=100h) for the engine rebuild and 2-3 yrs for the gear box. Some may bank a bit along the way to offset if they are smart. These costs bite along the way, but dont occur often. One could get 15 heat cylcles (2-3 weekends) out of a set of tires safely, but not real competive.
Track support has not been discussed so far and you really need some at this level. Mechanic only could be $500/day up to $8-10k for transport and teem support/travel to a Cup race.
So there are lots of ways to spend money. Spares alone can be brutal. I have 4 corners, 2 radiators, axels, gear box, clutch, body parts, 2 complete sets of brakes which is about a $35k investment outside the car.....
Sure is fun to drive, though!!!
Cup car costs of $10-20k/ weekend seem a little high for PCA or SCCA sprint races. Maybe not for one of the "Cups". I think if one is local and limited support with a reliable car could be $3-4k for the weekend. Still a lot of money for some "red haze."
Also, if you are "lucky" you could go 5 yrs (20h/yr=100h) for the engine rebuild and 2-3 yrs for the gear box. Some may bank a bit along the way to offset if they are smart. These costs bite along the way, but dont occur often. One could get 15 heat cylcles (2-3 weekends) out of a set of tires safely, but not real competive.
Track support has not been discussed so far and you really need some at this level. Mechanic only could be $500/day up to $8-10k for transport and teem support/travel to a Cup race.
So there are lots of ways to spend money. Spares alone can be brutal. I have 4 corners, 2 radiators, axels, gear box, clutch, body parts, 2 complete sets of brakes which is about a $35k investment outside the car.....
Sure is fun to drive, though!!!
04-18-2012, 07:25 PM
#17
GT3 player par excellence
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hum......
this is scaring me!
need to re-think
Kevin, u have pm
this is scaring me!
need to re-think
Kevin, u have pm
04-18-2012, 07:53 PM
#18
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04-18-2012, 08:15 PM
#19
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If you want to hack around and just drive the car on the track you can budget 7k to 8k per 3 day club weekend.
If you want to be competitive at a big venue you will need 3 new sets of tires per weekend and a good crew and budget 14 to 16.
If you flub a braking zone and take out a competitor.....figure on 50k.
If you blow. Something up prematurely.....that's extra.
If you want to be competitive at a big venue you will need 3 new sets of tires per weekend and a good crew and budget 14 to 16.
If you flub a braking zone and take out a competitor.....figure on 50k.
If you blow. Something up prematurely.....that's extra.
04-19-2012, 05:05 PM
#20
If you want to hack around and just drive the car on the track you can budget 7k to 8k per 3 day club weekend.
If you want to be competitive at a big venue you will need 3 new sets of tires per weekend and a good crew and budget 14 to 16.
If you flub a braking zone and take out a competitor.....figure on 50k.
If you blow. Something up prematurely.....that's extra.
If you want to be competitive at a big venue you will need 3 new sets of tires per weekend and a good crew and budget 14 to 16.
If you flub a braking zone and take out a competitor.....figure on 50k.
If you blow. Something up prematurely.....that's extra.
100% correct
When i talk about racing, I talk about racing to win, not just drive around DE style.
When you race to win, your tire budget alone will be $3-9k per weekend.
04-19-2012, 05:10 PM
#21
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Let me know when you sell your beast mobonic.
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04-19-2012, 06:19 PM
#22
Three Wheelin'
04-19-2012, 06:27 PM
#23
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04-19-2012, 07:05 PM
#24
ZBB,
I don't want to scare anyone off, but I have done a lot of research and talked with many owners of 997.1 and 997.2 cups and shops that run them for owners.
I was about to pull the trigger on a 2008 997 Cup until I was handed the bills with maintenance, support, and running costs and was astonished!
If you run the car gingerlly and are very dilligent about oil changes and analysis, yes the car CAN run north of 80 hours but more than likely if there is a faluire after that point you run the risk of loosing the entire engine.
I have yet to hear of a gearbox that has surpassed the 45 hour mark without a rebuild, and I have spoken to 2 of the best cup gear box rebuilders and the cases time out as well and will need to be replaced at about the 120-150 hour mark, so thats another added expense.
IMO the 996 cups are significantly less running costs and I have seen 2 996 cup engines reach 150+ hours but both needed full engine replacements after that.
A friend of mine is building a race car from a 997 GT3 platform that i think will amaze many and run laps faster than 997 cup cars at a fraction of the running costs.
many have to realize, the faster you go the more it will cost, things just ware out and break faster and parts are more expensive too.
my 997S race car is still expensive to race and uses many of the replacement parts from a 997 cup, and theres the cost of modification as well, but my weekends are half or 1/4 of the cost of those in our club with 997 cups and my car runs lap times that are either faster (novice drivers) or 2-3 seconds off pace (good drivers) or 4-5 seconds off pace (pro drivers) in 997 cup cars.. so how much is that 2-5 seconds worth to you in $$$$$$
Thats it for me stepping off my soap box.
I don't want to scare anyone off, but I have done a lot of research and talked with many owners of 997.1 and 997.2 cups and shops that run them for owners.
I was about to pull the trigger on a 2008 997 Cup until I was handed the bills with maintenance, support, and running costs and was astonished!
If you run the car gingerlly and are very dilligent about oil changes and analysis, yes the car CAN run north of 80 hours but more than likely if there is a faluire after that point you run the risk of loosing the entire engine.
I have yet to hear of a gearbox that has surpassed the 45 hour mark without a rebuild, and I have spoken to 2 of the best cup gear box rebuilders and the cases time out as well and will need to be replaced at about the 120-150 hour mark, so thats another added expense.
IMO the 996 cups are significantly less running costs and I have seen 2 996 cup engines reach 150+ hours but both needed full engine replacements after that.
A friend of mine is building a race car from a 997 GT3 platform that i think will amaze many and run laps faster than 997 cup cars at a fraction of the running costs.
many have to realize, the faster you go the more it will cost, things just ware out and break faster and parts are more expensive too.
my 997S race car is still expensive to race and uses many of the replacement parts from a 997 cup, and theres the cost of modification as well, but my weekends are half or 1/4 of the cost of those in our club with 997 cups and my car runs lap times that are either faster (novice drivers) or 2-3 seconds off pace (good drivers) or 4-5 seconds off pace (pro drivers) in 997 cup cars.. so how much is that 2-5 seconds worth to you in $$$$$$
Thats it for me stepping off my soap box.
04-19-2012, 07:21 PM
#25
Mobonic is spot on on his estimates - I won't look at my receipts bin for running my 996 Cup, but I know and can validate his numbers. But I have a blast racing the car - the real work is hiding the expenses from the wife...
04-19-2012, 08:09 PM
#27
I run two cars, the Cup and the MINI because the incremental cost of running two cars and getting double track time (sometime triple when I double stint the time trial events also) is minimal in the scheme of things.
That's how I justify it until I find myself buying more tires, a double stacker or 40' trailer, and a truck just to haul everything around...sigh...
It costs as much as your budget. Every year, every weekend. BUT I LOVE IT. It's why we do it. Until we can't anymore.
I see Tex Guthrie every once in awhile in the shop - he's writing his memoirs. I saw him on the track racing wheel to wheel with us at 80 years old. We can only be so lucky!
Ricky
P.S. You can run 2-3 Club weekends versus 1 Pirelli Drivers Cup event or 1 Grand-Am ST weekend price wise.
04-20-2012, 08:59 AM
#28
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ZBB,
A friend of mine is building a race car from a 997 GT3 platform that i think will amaze many and run laps faster than 997 cup cars at a fraction of the running costs.
many have to realize, the faster you go the more it will cost, things just ware out and break faster and parts are more expensive too.
A friend of mine is building a race car from a 997 GT3 platform that i think will amaze many and run laps faster than 997 cup cars at a fraction of the running costs.
many have to realize, the faster you go the more it will cost, things just ware out and break faster and parts are more expensive too.
04-20-2012, 12:30 PM
#30
Burning Brakes
IMO, some of the costs listed in this thread are just to high. It's as if some people looked into getting one, decided for themselves that the possibility of having to pay out for some of the most expensive repairs out weighed the benefit of getting the car and are now justifying their decision by (unconsciously) trying to scare others away.
You should have the means and not want to throw in the towel if you have to fork over some of the cash listed in this thread, but in all honesty you probably won't have to. A factory Cup car is a very well sorted, strong, and reliable race car. Take care of it and it will take care of you.
Fact of the matter is, if you want a car that's similar to what you see the guys on TV race and you want to work on becoming a really good driver, it's the perfect tool. There's so much data and experience out there with factory cups (supporting and driving) it's much easier and faster (schedule wise) than building your own. Not to mention, you can compare apples to apples. If you set a time at a track, you can easily find what other guys in (stock) Cup's run and can compare to it. Turn a street car into a race car and the only way for you to know how you're doing is to get a Pro to jump in it and do some laps. And unless you're already a VERY good racer/driver, good luck properly setting up a race car you build yourself. Again, you're only option is to hire a Pro to come help you.
That's my 2cents anyway.
-mike
You should have the means and not want to throw in the towel if you have to fork over some of the cash listed in this thread, but in all honesty you probably won't have to. A factory Cup car is a very well sorted, strong, and reliable race car. Take care of it and it will take care of you.
Fact of the matter is, if you want a car that's similar to what you see the guys on TV race and you want to work on becoming a really good driver, it's the perfect tool. There's so much data and experience out there with factory cups (supporting and driving) it's much easier and faster (schedule wise) than building your own. Not to mention, you can compare apples to apples. If you set a time at a track, you can easily find what other guys in (stock) Cup's run and can compare to it. Turn a street car into a race car and the only way for you to know how you're doing is to get a Pro to jump in it and do some laps. And unless you're already a VERY good racer/driver, good luck properly setting up a race car you build yourself. Again, you're only option is to hire a Pro to come help you.
That's my 2cents anyway.
-mike