trader247

Hi Guys,

I am new to posting on this forum, but have been lurking for awhile. I have had serveral 911 variations over the past 20 years and done some slight DE and AutoX. I love the track, thinking of going to some more professional driving schools (skip & barb).

I was initially looking to upgrade my 997 S to a GT3 and then came accross the Cup car. My gosh, what a machine. I am having serious considerations about skipping the GT3 thing and just going for the Cup and keeping my 997 S for street use. I have a few questions:

6 or 7 Cup? I know the 6 has ABS (potentialy good for new driver), but the 7 seems more updated and I love the sequential transmission (I am prepared to be able to drive without ABS).

The thing is that PMNA says to not use a 100+ hr engine for racing? (is this including rebuilds?) if not I need a car with only about 25 hours and no rebuild on it. Or am I fine with a motor that has been built a few times with low hours?

If I go with a 7 Cup should I save some money and get a pre 08 for about 85K (I know it all depends on the hous and builds). Or is it best to just spend the money for an 08 ish Cup car?

My plan for the car is to initially get some private instuction and do some private track days and perhaps some DE's then go race. There are so many avenues to pursue with the Cup car it is unreal. I know there is the WC and Gold racing, any inpute would be greatly appreciated, by the way I live in Southern California and have lots of access to tracks. I am also fortunate to have the time necessary to devote to the sport if its a good fit.

Thanks much.

trader247 (Chris)

coryf

Hi Chris,

The 996 cup would be an easier car to drive. The conventional tranny, power assisted brakes and more street car like feel of the chassis all make it more like a normal car that most people have experience with. They aren't as fast but still have way more performance than most people can take full advantage of.
The 997 is closer to a "real" race car. The main problem with a 7 though is if the driver isn't great with the downshifts the transmission can fail and/or wear out very quickly. It can be very expensive to repair a sequential.

I believe what Porsche is saying about the engines is you don't want to trust a 100hr motor to be reliable enough to risk running in a race. They are still very safe to run. (assuming there were not any big over revs, over heating ect..) I also think they are referring to the time since last rebuild. The total time on an engine doesn't matter too much if a complete rebuild was done. They don't recomend running a 100plus hr total time motor in a 24hr race though.

The 08/09 997 has a nice jump in power. The older cars can be upgraded to the 08/09 specs without too much trouble. With some of the older cars selling for such low prices, I would think it might be cheaper to buy a decent 06/07 and upgrade to 08/09 engine specs.

A cup car is a lot of car for a beginner. Some people have been very successful jumping right into one but depending on what your driving goals for the future are it might make sense to spend some time in a slower class car to get some more experience. Maybe rent a spec miata/boxster or a skippy school car for a few weekends and then try out a cup. If you really want the cup then go for it for sure. They are a blast to drive.

Cory

trader247

Hi Cory,

Thanks for the info...I understand a Cup car is not to be jumped into lightly. I do prefer the styling and the sequential of the 7 Cup though. I will do my best to not miss shifts or I will pay to play

With the 100hr thing, I guess this applies to running Daytona or something for 24hrs. I do aspire to run my Cup car at Daytona someday (maybe not my first Cup car but eventually...

If anyone on the board has a car for sale please let me know your experience.

jrgordonsenior

Chris I highly recommend listening to what Cory has to say. He's about as experienced as you'll find and has raced pretty much every Cup/RSR variation.

Since you're in So Cal you should come to POC's last race of the year Dec. 4 & 5th at Willow Springs. There's always an abundant supply of 6 and 7 cups racing and you can talk to the different owners about their experiences. Many moved from 6's to 7's and can address the differences, plus you can watch them race and see them perform.....

http://porscheownersclub.org/events/...E127-Info2.pdf

trader247

thanks JR,

I wil for sure be at the Willow Springs event to see what is up....

In the mean time, it is my birthday this week and my wife is treating me to racecar school.....Being in SoCal I can select between Skip and Barb 4 day race school...Any preferences from anyone between Skip and Barb (they are both close to my house in Santa Barbara)....

Thanks,

trader247 (Chris)

PedroNole

DO NOT convert your current car. With prices as they are, I thnk you'll spend less momey on a real Cup than the conversion. i agree with Cory regarding the 996, great car and certainly easier to drive, set up, support.

That said, get as much car as you can handle/afford. The 997 is a big step up in every way. Make sure you're running with the car with a sshop/track support that knows how to set up a Cup. They are VERY set up dependent.

trader247

Thanks Pedro...

I have a guy here (GT3 Cup WC) in Santa Barbara that runs a race team (Horton Autosport’s )...If I ask and pay nicely, I am sure he can assist me.

Any assist on cars to find and good race schools appreciated...

Good racing,

trader247 (Chris)

Kuhlsport

Go to Skip Barber Racing school. If you want to race, it is the quickest way to experience what it is all about and get great instruction in the fundamentals which apply to any and every car you may drive in the future.

Glen

You have a PM.
I agree with Kuhl although private coaching is great in addition/also...

James-GMG

Chris,

I sent you a PM on your other post but can follow up here with some of your questions.
First off, if you are in the area on Dec 2nd, we (GMG) are having a private track day at Willow Springs just prior to the POC weekend and we will have several Cup cars there for testing as well as some street modified GT3 and GT3RS's being tracked. Feel free to come by and check it out.......you will see several options on display.
We will also be at the POC race weekend supporting some Cup car customers.

And I know Patrick Lindsey from Horton, he is a good guy and a good driver.

Would love to help you out with your search and getting you up to speed as I have a brought in many new clients who purchased their first Cup car through us and are now racing at Datyona and Sebring.....

fapena

Unless you are a direct descendent of Ayrton Senna, you will remember this post for many, many months, maybe years, to come...

Cory is as honest as experienced driver with Cup cars, and you can check his resume on line, which speaks by itself... I had the same thoughts when I was looking for a Cup car after having driven my 997 GT3 quite aggressively on the track. Thank God I went for the 996 Cup.

At any rate, wish you the best of luck, the most successes, and overall to have the most amazing blast of your life with whatever you finally get. And I seriously mean it.

FAP

ZSA Motorsport

my two cents mirror the recurring theme here;
1. dont upgrade your street car. you'll spend tons and never get it as good as a factory race car like the cup, the cup being far less money than you'll plunk into a converted gt3.

2. i strongly recommend the 996. ive had a 2006 cup, a 2010 cup, and a 996. i sold the first two , still have my 996. the 997s are quicker. no lifting shifting is an incredibly fun and efficient thing. but those gear boxes are far less durable by a huge huge margin. the ease in which you can make a bad shift with a sequential is amazing. i spent about 20 hours in my 2007 997 learngin the shifter before ever touchign the 2010 cup car. even when you're shifting great, the dang thing can still foul up for no real fault of your own. and if you do foul it up, you're out $30grand in a blink with no mulligans. frankly, if you foul it up you mightt ake the tranny and the engine...so now you're out 60grand...and lastly, you mismatch it and lock up the car, you might slide right into a guardrail and you're out a tranny, engine and car.

im not saying its not very quick. it is, and man, nothing more enjoyable than smacking that carbon shifter forward and banging down thru gears and not lifting on the way up. if they only double the gear boxes' durability, it would be without flaw. but its not.

a 996 cup has tons of power;
the gtc3 fields have , usually, more cars than the 997 fields. usually.
gear boxes in 996s are bulletproof. so are the engines. dudes get 80, 90 hours or more on those things.
they used to be cheaper to rebuild though rebuild costs on 996s are coming up.
its a way to get used to a ever-so-slightly slower cup car, the suspension, the power, the way it jerks and bucks at slow speeds, the way the power comes on like a bullet (UNLIKE a road car)...
and you can get wicked nice 996 cups for 65, 70,75 grand WITH spares.

in sum, id recommend getting 996 cup with tons of spares for 20,30grand less than a comprable 997. drive it for a year. learn the car and power. and then you sell it for maybe 10k less? maybe break even?? and move up from there.

just my two cents.

al@cpt

I would strongly suggest private instruction if you want to drive flat out .

Leigh2

I went through the same decision making process last year and was about to pull the trigger on a 996 cup when a race prepared 997 GT3 came on the market and I bought it. Very well prepared car but the receipts that came along with the car show that the build cost, not including the original car, was more than a 996 cup costs; so completely uneconomical to do now. But I ended up with a 997 faux-cup with ABS and a manual gearbox. It's proven to be competitive with the 996 cups but slower than most 997 cups. I had a couple of decades of racing/track experience before this car and intended it to be an interim step before getting into a 997 cup. I have it prepared by a racing shop that specializes in Porsche and it has taken a whole season to get used to the car and to sync my driving/communications/setup preferences with the shop. It was a great year but I remain very hesitant to make the jump into a 997 cup so I'm sticking with this car for at least another season.
The car is considered a bit of a mutt by the PCA and doesn't fit well into their categories. Not as much of an issue with other organizations and for my club-racing purposes it has been fun, fast and reliable and a great learning platform. I remain pleased very with my original decision not to jump right into a 997 cup.

trader247

Just posted this on my WTB 7 cup post...

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the info and considerations.

I fully appreciate that many racers are pointing me toward the 6 cup cars.

However, one of my asperations aside from racing (I have to still work for a living) is that I have full corporate sponsorship from my own company. I can offset a great deal of my racing from my company. I want to have enough visability to get marketing for my sponsors.

So again, good idea to try to go for the 7 cup vs the 6 cup?

Good racing,

Chris (trader247)