wanna911

LOL @ you guys. Actually it's rather hard sorting through what's bs and what's not when you two are the only ones who really know what you're talking about. Seems though that it's a lot of "we can, you can't" vs "no you can't, but we can" type stuff so there is no way to draw a conclusion based on this. Results speak for themselves. Guard has proven itself over and over again from what I've heard, and OS Giken has some very good results from what I've seen here recently.

From what I've heard, I would be happy with either, and since no back to back testing has transpired, no one will really know which is better. But some big claims from the up and coming brand vs the proven entity means someone has some tough words to back up.

Red9

The long term incumbent proven acceptable quality product and industry standard is the GT LSD.
Anyone that purports to equal or better and uses those type of claims needs to be able to back that up with some supporting evidence( with all due respect Erik) .Others that have chimed in here do not name those that claim to be using the new product-that does underwhelm me-- the inability to give real examples.If in those incidents it is a confidentiality issue--then give some examples where it is not.Let us hear from actual users to give that testimonial .
I am familiar with the GT product and the Porsche Motorsport LSD and have used them in over a dozen cars over 10 years-none of which have been slow!So when a new(to me at least) product appears that claims to match and better(& cheaper) it sparks my interest.The other thing I would have to say- there are lots of claims from products that come and go that fail to live up to the hype-- so I want to hear more--not less-- so greatly appreciate the contributions from Paul & Erik-it makes very interesting education.

Erik@GBox

Well said Red9 and I would agree that actual users of the differential, their experience, and not the words of either myself or Paul, would be extremely useful. Believe me that is in the works as far as what I can provide for the OS Giken. I have made a couple of requests and hope that information will be available for all to read here shortly.

Thanks for your comments.

Erik Johnson
GBox Sales Manager
(303) 440-8899 work
(303) 895-4828 cell

tcsracing1

gimmie a OS Giken for my RS and i will thrash it for a season to see if it works.....

okindao

Great thread guys........Paul thank you for educating us on this matter.

Erik.......i have been in sales for many, many years..........you need to back up your claims with verifiable results from others. Don't buy the line that people will not admit what they have...most folks on this board and others are proud of what they have done and want to brag about it........many of your inuendos and statements are insulting......

thanks to both of you for the entertainment and the education

mooty

i have benefitted from long conversation with paul guard when i got the GT diff for my GT3. he did offer cheaper alternatives, but i wanted the while GT diff. i dont recall the cost $3-4k. it's worth that much money just as paper wt. you got to see the machining on that puppy makes the oem diff ......

it was installed by BCMG. and like paul said, there may be other shops with lots of experience such as steve weiner at rothsport, a friend of mine, but if brian copan says do "this" or "that" , just do it. you wont regret it. i am in CA and when i shipped to brian my gear box, gas was at $4/gallon so shipping was $800. BCMG even reduced their service cost to help me with shipping, which they have no control over.

if you need a LSD, get GT and have brian put it in.

Erik@GBox

Mooty,

Just curious, how often do you need to have your GT Differential overhauled per year? Not trying to start anything up again here, but with the limited amount of plates, and high pre-load, I would imagine that you have to do so at least once per season? I know some teams have to do this several times a season, so when you add that into the equation, my question then becomes, is the additional money you spend every year worth the result? Would you consider, a better product if one proved itself to indeed be better?

Someone was nice enough to post this on another site, I thought that I would share it with everyone here. It does not compare against the GT, as they do not make a differential for the cars in the article, but I found it to be pretty interesting just the same, particularly the tire wear aspect. I just thought I would share it with people here.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/whats-diff/

Again not tested in Porsches but still an interesting article.

Warmest Regards,


Erik Johnson
GBox Sales Manager
(303) 440-8899 work
(303) 895-4828 cell

roberga

Paul is the most honorable guy I have met in my 56 years. He took way too much time explaining to me LSDs and why I would be making a better decision by getting the right packs for my needs. He never even tried to have me buy the whole unit. When I gave him the info on my 996 GT3 he suggested that I just have the packs rebuilt. By the way, the Porsche unit cost $200 more than Paul's (2008).

Rickard 993 Turbo

Guard LSD gt1 for me all day long

Erik@GBox

It goes without saying that different people are going to have different opinions on any given product or service. I would point a couple of things out here that apply to most if not all of the other manufacturers, other the OS Giken, and not just GT.

The current setup for most LSD's will be 8 clutch plates, 4 per side, and 65-85 ft-lbs of breakaway torque.

A high breakaway will result in increase wear on internal clutches as they are under constant pressure. The higher the breakaway the faster these clutches will wear, provided that your breakaway is not so high as to effectively create a spool. This will also increase the heat generated by the LSD due to the increase in friction during breakaway. Get the breakaway too high and your car could experience some interesting new characteristics through tight turns.

Where the OS Giken is different here is that it uses 20 clutch plates to distribute the work load, and has a very low breakaway, as the ramps are counter sprung against each other. Low pre-load means less wear on internals, as well as lower temperature generation. It also lets the car turn in quicker and more accurately as it does not need to first overcome the breakaway.

I certainly understand that there are companies that put out a more flashy, in appearance, product, but who really cares about that? You get to see it twice, once when you take it out of the box for install, and again when you take it out for replacement. I suppose this could be more often, if you have to constantly rebuild it due to premature clutch plate wear, but you get can see where I am coming from here.

The OS Giken LSD while not flashy in appearance certainly is in result. It has a billet steel outer case that has undergone additional chemical strengthening, it's internal gears are precision forged steel, and shot peened, for longevity and strength. There are no cross pins for engaging the ramps, so no possibility of failure there, which does happen, usually taking out the gearbox at a dead minimum, occasionally taking out the engine as well. And it offers a progressive ramp on acceleration to 100%, which is also adjustable.

My thought in offering this up here was very simple. It is a superior differential to the competition, offers an additional level of car control, which no other differential to my knowledge offers. And the best part - even with the new price point of $1990.00 which started at the beginning of the year, it is still less expensive. In some cases really less expensive, as some differentials can cost nearly $4,000.00.

So absolutely, go with any differential that suits your need or budget, or preference. I just wanted everyone to know that there was a new option that you might want to seriously consider.

Have a great day everyone, and please do not hesitate to contact me if I can be of any help at all.

Erik Johnson
GBox Performance Transaxle
(303) 440-8899 work
(303) 895-4828 cell

GTgears

Since this thread has resurfaced, I figured I would pop in and add my 2 cents. A couple of weeks ago I had a shop call me to order fresh friction discs, plain plates and belleville washers for the GT LSD. I got to talking with the guy and he provided some useful feedback that readers of this thread might find interesting.

The car is a 400whp 996TT that is a dedicated racecar. The shop that runs the car tells me that they have been running a GT LSD in there since 2005 and this is the first time they have had to rebuild it. He brought up the topic of breakaway saying that the car was now "down" to about 80ft/lb and was spinning the rear inside tire on corner exit. I asked him what he it had been set to when new, and he said 120ft/lb. That's almost exactly the same preload that Porsche uses on the Cup Cars. This is a 4 plate GT2 Chromoly LSD and not even one of the 6 or 8 plate configurations that we offer.

I just figured this would be useful emprical information for people considering a new LSD for their cars. I suspect that a lot of the people reading this forum already own and run Cup Cars and have an 8 plate factory LSD in their cars, and aren't shopping for something given that those LSDs are top notch. But there will come a time when those LSDs need rebuilding and putting Giken parts into your factory LSD isn't an option. Putting our parts into it is, so it's worthwile for you to know that the parts hold up to the test of time. This idea that high preload leads to premature wear just doesn't hold water in my experience.

Regards,

Matt Monson
Guard Transmission LLC

onefastviking

So why would someone buy a GT LSD over the OS Giken ? Is it better ? Lighter ? Cheaper ?
OS Giken claims to have developed a better LSD, whether it is or not I don't know since I havn't personally driven with one, that I know of.

I'm not trying to start a pissing match here just trying to go directly to the source and be better educated on the strengths and weaknesses of both products. I am guessing that each probably has it's advantages over the other depending on what your needs are.

GTgears

onefastviking,

I will not engage in a mine versus theirs debate. The only reason I commented here is because Erik continues to spread innacurate information about our product and unless someone sets the record straight people reading these threads may actually believe what he's saying. I bit my tongue on round one at Paul Guard's request. He wanted to address most of the inaccuracies personally. But here they are again, so I felt the need to comment.

I've got nothing negative to say about Gikken's product. I've only seen one apart on the bench and what I saw suggested to me that it was a well designed and manufactured piece. I personally don't believe in negative selling and won't engage in bashing anyone's product.

All I am really saying is that if the Gikken is so good sell it on it's merits. Tell us more about how it works. Explain to us the locking percentages and how adjustable they are, since these are both things that have been asked for and response is always that the poster should call or email for an explanation. If this is such a good product why the secrecy? Not only is Erik not answering these questions that have been posed publicly, but when I review the Gikken website they don't have that information either. This LSD is a great mystery aside from the fact that it's got more plates and uses a patented negative preload design. Personally, I, like many others am in the dark about how this LSD really works.

If you want to know these sorts of things about our product, they are common knowledge and a simple google search will reveal dozens of threads on all the Porsche forums, discussing the function, materials, and design of our products. But this thread is not about our product. This is Erik's thread where he, as a vendor on this forum, is trying to sell something. In short, I think it would be rude of me to attempt to sell my product here and the only reason I have commented here or will comment in the future is to keep the representation of our product accurate.

onefastviking

Fair enough, maybe we can start up another thread then sometime on the advantages and merits on the GT LSD.

Eric, could you then elaborate on why the OS Giken is better and what the lock %'s are and why the OS Giken is a better unit than the GT ?

I have seen both diffs in top winning cars before so I know that both are good. Maybe they are both good for different reasons or conditions ? Is one really that much better than the other ?

wanna911

I like the concept of the OS Giken diff.


I do not however like this approach to advertising.