jrgordonsenior

PCA/POC rule change allows any 2-way dampers for 2008 in GTC3 or 4. I'm at the point of needing to rebuild my OEM Sachs, so I'm questioning whether it would be beneficial to switch to Motons or Ohlins or ??
Opinions please.....

PatK-Mpls

A couple of points:
1) The Sachs in the car are quite good
2) Setting up shocks without potentiometers (even with them you need a very competent engineer) is difficult

analogmike

I agree with 1)

and 2)

4 Kurves

Since we race against each other John I think you should go for it..

supercup

John,

I never felt in my 05 996 Cup I was at a disadvantage due to Sach's shocks. Are JRZ or Moton better, maybe, but for the extra dollars, they probably will only pay off at 10/10's.

I have a similar delima with my 07 Cup, adj. or stick with factory shocks that are not.

JCM

95m3racer

If the Sachs are setup properly, they'll be better than moton.

However, if you can afford it, I would upgrade to Ohlins. The cannister design is far superior, and the shock design itself is superior. You can run significantly lower cannister pressures, and the cannister will never leak like the moton/sachs schrader valves.

Motorsport Spares Inc can set you up on Ohlins.

Either damper you have, the setup will be key. While a higher quality, better design shock will obviously give you more potential, you are going to gain probably 80% of your speed from setup. And I'd say that last 20% is upto component capabilities.

With high level drivers (top pro's) the components become even more crucial, and thats why you see Dynamics and Ohlins TTX's on the real high end applications. Incredibly expensive though, but worth it if you have a multi million dollar season on the line.

PatK-Mpls

I presume the Ohlins you refer to are the TTXs. The TTXx are a different level of damper than those that come stock on the cup cars. The Sachs that is analogous to the TTXs is the Formula Matrix. These are every bit as good as the TTXs and they hold up too

Rassel

Plenty of options instead of the OEM SACHs. It was designed to give fair competition between the Cup cars, not as the optimal damper. Most people replace them with other models or brands. Look how deep you can go into the wallet, then start comparing options.

95m3racer

I was referring to them in the latter part of the post. In the main part of the reply though I was referring to the standard 2/3 way adjustables (HMRC/LMJ, etc).

Robert Linton

We could design for you what might be the finest bespoke damper in the world; and we could make it lighter and lighter -- in accordance with your desires. Finally, depending upon your budget, we could make the dampers almost unbelievably expensive -- $20,000 for a set, $30,000 for a set, $40,000 for a set, $50,000, $70,000+ for a set (carbon fiber struts, composite with hard chromed titanium shafts, removable cartridge adjusters each with different damper characteristics accurate to almost outrageously small tolerances, billet aluminum bodies, carbon fiber/titanium adjusters *****, titanium dry breaks, etc., etc. are expensive). But the truth is that, in most situations, for most amateur drivers, the standard dampers will do the job adequately and, indeed, will do it far better than a complicated, delicate damper adjusted improperly. And, and with all respect to those who set up Cup Cars throughout the world, there are very few that can (particularly without electronic devices, shaker rigs, etc.) get enough out of such a fine damper so as to make it worth the cost - and Dipl. Ing. Roland Kussmaul is not available for hire nor for housecalls. In short, staying with the factory equipped dampers is, in the vast majority of cases, the best possible option.

95m3racer

Exactly. Setup. Setup. Setup.

Robert, has your firm worked with any computer controlled dampers? Electromagnetics?

Its easy to make something high quality thats uber expensive, the challenge is to make it affordable, or at least make the technology affordable and apply it to something the average Club racer can afford.

I still think the TTX46/TTX40 are some of the best bang for your buck through rods on the market. A set for a BMW is under $15k. As you mentioned though, its just a tool, you need the knowledge and R&D time to dial them in to optimize them for each track/condition, driver, etc.

Robert Linton

Between Cartridge and McLaren Electronics, which we represent in North America, we have worked on computer controlled, electromagnetic, MR, etc., none of which are legal in any Cup race series. And, yes, if they were legal, with proper R&D, they should be superior to conventional mechanical dampers. But the R&D spiral that would commence would make today's dampers seem a bargain.

As to the high end dampers such as Dynamics, Koni, Ohlins, Sachs, etc., or the upper level club units such as JRZ or Moton, they are all good in their own way but, with money, one can produce substantially better.

95m3racer

Gotcha.

I get a good laugh when i see club racers with no engineering knowledge and no experience bragging they have 4way adjustables (motons, etc), yet they are way off the pace because with all the added complexity of the device, they are lost on how to optimize it. Thats why I almost always suggest a 2way adjustable for club racers unless they plan on having an experienced shop (or race/suspensions engineer) help them set the car up (plus a good pro driver coach helps tons). While the 3ways might offer an advantage, I'd rather have a 90% optimized 2way than a 75% optimzed 3way.

Robert, is your Verizon email still working?

Robert Linton

rdlinton@verizon.net and rdlinton@cartridgelimited.com both work.

Mark Anderson

John I have a set of motons if you are interested. Are you going to willow this weekend?