Cayman turbo???
04-14-2008, 01:25 AM
#17
Burning Brakes
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With its mid-engined layout, rigid chassis and featherweight build the Cayman is the ideal race car. But last year some of the fantastic privateer Caymans on the grid were suddenly replaced with money-can't-buy factory-backed RSR 911s. For me this confirmed that Porsche don't want the 911 toppled by its younger sibling and were dealing with the teams who pushed the Cayman.
...that's just sad...
...that's just sad...
04-14-2008, 08:23 AM
#18
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Middle paragraph on the site linked by hammerwerfer.
http://bridgetogantry.com/index.php?...d=143&Itemid=1
http://bridgetogantry.com/index.php?...d=143&Itemid=1
04-14-2008, 03:38 PM
#19
Porsche would do it if the financial model was there. But its not since such a car would cost more than a 911 and we are back to the early 70's scenario w/the 914-6 vs 911 issue.
For now its a "build your own" CS X-51 and enjoy smoking 911's and pretty much anything else in that hp range.
For now its a "build your own" CS X-51 and enjoy smoking 911's and pretty much anything else in that hp range.
04-15-2008, 11:14 AM
#20
Nordschleife Master
The 911 still is a better track car then the Cayman even if there were a Turbo version.
To back up my statement I will let you know the reason.
I totally agree the Cayman has a better design but It's recommended not to put racing slicks on the Cayman. Why is that, the reason is that it can pull way more G's then a 911. The engine design is ok for a 911 but not for the Cayman. You could seriously damage your engine when doing hard G corners.
What the Cayman should get is a dry sump engine like for example the GT3 engine. Who need turbos then. If the Cayman had even the old 996 GT3 engine it would kick the **** out of the 997 GT3.
That probably will never happen. One can only dream.
SC and Turbos are the cheap way to get power. The 3.8l X51 engine has the same problem as the current 3.4l and is fairly expensive. If someone were to go to all the trouble and change out the engine why not pay the extra 20G and put in a 996 or 997 GT3 engine.
Some interesting reading about the problem with the Cayman.
To back up my statement I will let you know the reason.
I totally agree the Cayman has a better design but It's recommended not to put racing slicks on the Cayman. Why is that, the reason is that it can pull way more G's then a 911. The engine design is ok for a 911 but not for the Cayman. You could seriously damage your engine when doing hard G corners.
What the Cayman should get is a dry sump engine like for example the GT3 engine. Who need turbos then. If the Cayman had even the old 996 GT3 engine it would kick the **** out of the 997 GT3.
That probably will never happen. One can only dream.
SC and Turbos are the cheap way to get power. The 3.8l X51 engine has the same problem as the current 3.4l and is fairly expensive. If someone were to go to all the trouble and change out the engine why not pay the extra 20G and put in a 996 or 997 GT3 engine.
Some interesting reading about the problem with the Cayman.
04-15-2008, 11:20 AM
#21
Nordschleife Master
Porsche would do it if the financial model was there. But its not since such a car would cost more than a 911 and we are back to the early 70's scenario w/the 914-6 vs 911 issue.
For now its a "build your own" CS X-51 and enjoy smoking 911's and pretty much anything else in that hp range.
For now its a "build your own" CS X-51 and enjoy smoking 911's and pretty much anything else in that hp range.
04-15-2008, 12:55 PM
#24
Nordschleife Master
04-16-2008, 01:16 AM
#25
Race Director
Mooty did a detail write up somewhere on his experience.
If you get more power into the Cayman platform (eg, with a charger), you will certainly run faster, but then the power steering pump would over-heat. You will take harder corners, and the A-arms would go.
All in all, while the Cayman has a very corner-friendly chasis design (mid-engine, light etc.) Porsche did not put in all the necessary parts (true dry-sump engine, GT3 caliber steering pump, under-carriage, suspension, LSD, and brake parts etc.) to make it a bullet-proof track car. There is a reason why the GT3 costs that much more than a Cayman, and it is not just paying for the 911 model alone. The GT3 has many more track-proven parts that allows it to run in a La Mans type enduro environment. To make a Cayman as capable as the GT3, you need to put in a LOT more than just HP, brakes, suspension and tires. You need to upgrade many other intrinsic components to get there. By then, you have spent a lot more than you would a GT3, as everything is custom to the Cayman.
Bottom line, we get what we pay for.
CP
If you get more power into the Cayman platform (eg, with a charger), you will certainly run faster, but then the power steering pump would over-heat. You will take harder corners, and the A-arms would go.
All in all, while the Cayman has a very corner-friendly chasis design (mid-engine, light etc.) Porsche did not put in all the necessary parts (true dry-sump engine, GT3 caliber steering pump, under-carriage, suspension, LSD, and brake parts etc.) to make it a bullet-proof track car. There is a reason why the GT3 costs that much more than a Cayman, and it is not just paying for the 911 model alone. The GT3 has many more track-proven parts that allows it to run in a La Mans type enduro environment. To make a Cayman as capable as the GT3, you need to put in a LOT more than just HP, brakes, suspension and tires. You need to upgrade many other intrinsic components to get there. By then, you have spent a lot more than you would a GT3, as everything is custom to the Cayman.
Bottom line, we get what we pay for.
CP
Last edited by CP; 04-16-2008 at 01:37 AM.
04-16-2008, 03:18 AM
#26
Platinum Dealership
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there was a thread a while back on the 997 GT2/GT3 forum regarding the cayman platform vs the GT3 platform...
slightly OT as the thread is about a turbo cayman (Ruf builds a supercharged cayman, the 3400K)
to sum it up thusly- some european teams are custom fabricating these "racing" caymans with the GT3 cup engine and GT3 front suspension, brakes, etc. The car's frame still has rigidity issues that are unique to the cayman, basically- it's not balanced, welded, or constructed with the same development or endurance in mind as the GT3.
If you started from the frame, and reinforced it with better welds, redesigned the suspension mounting points, and the mounting points for the transmission+ engine, you'd have a mid engined car with a lower center of gravity and the chassis to cope with the power of the car in an endurance environment. Just like the slicks will allow higher cornering G's than the oiling system can handle, the weight and power of the GT3 cup engine will snap some of the stock cayman's suspension, so you have to upgrade everything in unison.
Porsche has taken huge offense to the teams that have done this, to the point that the teams actually remove all porsche badging from the car.
(this is what M-speed racing did for their M-speed cayman that I posted pics of in above mentioned thread)
it is possible that a turbo cayman with a .5-.6 bar turbo and/or 350 hp breaks camp once the DFI 911 engines come out in the next few years. When the base 911 engine output climbs to the 355-360 range, theoretically the 911S will have 395, GT3 will have 445-460, and turbo will be 520-530 stock.
porsche is always developing, but they don't really risk too much too soon with power increases...that's why they roll out HP slowly- the 993TT and the 996TT had basically the same HP and for a car that's a whole 5 years newer with only 15 hp more stock (and we all know how much can be made with tuning- easily!) is playing it a bit too safe for some.
slightly OT as the thread is about a turbo cayman (Ruf builds a supercharged cayman, the 3400K)
to sum it up thusly- some european teams are custom fabricating these "racing" caymans with the GT3 cup engine and GT3 front suspension, brakes, etc. The car's frame still has rigidity issues that are unique to the cayman, basically- it's not balanced, welded, or constructed with the same development or endurance in mind as the GT3.
If you started from the frame, and reinforced it with better welds, redesigned the suspension mounting points, and the mounting points for the transmission+ engine, you'd have a mid engined car with a lower center of gravity and the chassis to cope with the power of the car in an endurance environment. Just like the slicks will allow higher cornering G's than the oiling system can handle, the weight and power of the GT3 cup engine will snap some of the stock cayman's suspension, so you have to upgrade everything in unison.
Porsche has taken huge offense to the teams that have done this, to the point that the teams actually remove all porsche badging from the car.
(this is what M-speed racing did for their M-speed cayman that I posted pics of in above mentioned thread)
it is possible that a turbo cayman with a .5-.6 bar turbo and/or 350 hp breaks camp once the DFI 911 engines come out in the next few years. When the base 911 engine output climbs to the 355-360 range, theoretically the 911S will have 395, GT3 will have 445-460, and turbo will be 520-530 stock.
porsche is always developing, but they don't really risk too much too soon with power increases...that's why they roll out HP slowly- the 993TT and the 996TT had basically the same HP and for a car that's a whole 5 years newer with only 15 hp more stock (and we all know how much can be made with tuning- easily!) is playing it a bit too safe for some.
04-16-2008, 11:05 AM
#28
I agree.
I didnt do my homework and thought the Cayman was the track car to have. Seems like too much work to get it reliable enough. I didnt expect a GT3 beater (that would be silly), but thought the car would make a great daily driver and handle the track close to the Lotus. No Im thinking the Lotus although not as street friendly is a better track machine.
I didnt do my homework and thought the Cayman was the track car to have. Seems like too much work to get it reliable enough. I didnt expect a GT3 beater (that would be silly), but thought the car would make a great daily driver and handle the track close to the Lotus. No Im thinking the Lotus although not as street friendly is a better track machine.
04-16-2008, 11:15 AM
#29
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Let me get this straight...are we saying the Cayman is a terrible track car as it is or are we saying the Cayman would be a terrible track car if it had another 100hp or so? I guess I've read about a lot of people who've really enjoyed their Caymen on the track...
04-16-2008, 11:38 AM
#30
Nordschleife Master
I think the point is that upgrading the Cayman with more hp, racing slicks and really pushing the car. The Cayman will then have a lot of problems. As soon as you fix one problem it will create another one. It takes a whole lot of money to fix all the issues.
I think the Cayman witch hasn't been upgraded is fine for an occasional DE track day but it still not a great track car and that's what I really find disappointing, because I really had intentions of buying one just for the track. I guess I still could if I was willing to upgrade everything but it probably be much cheaper to just pick up a used 996 GT3.
I think the Cayman witch hasn't been upgraded is fine for an occasional DE track day but it still not a great track car and that's what I really find disappointing, because I really had intentions of buying one just for the track. I guess I still could if I was willing to upgrade everything but it probably be much cheaper to just pick up a used 996 GT3.