RaceDevelopementCenter

Mike, reach out to mike@rennsport-one.com we would enjoy educating you on finding the correct pad for your application / use. When it comes to braking, there is not a once size fits all approach and thats where this topic gets confusing.

JRitt@essex

There's unfortunately not much possible that can be done in terms of adding more material thickness to the pads. The calipers and discs limit how thick the pad can be. The backing plate must be a certain thickness (typically something like 5mm) to ensure that it won't deform under high heat conditions. That means the amount of friction material that can be added to the backing plate is a set number in order to fit between the pistons and the disc face. It's not an arbitrary number.

In terms of pad descriptions, have you read the Ferodo descriptions on our website? https://www.essexparts.com/brake-pads/ferodo-brake-pads
The bolded text below appears exactly like it does on our site. We did that specifically to avoid the situation you describe. While Ferodo technically calls the DS2500 a race pad, we consider it more of a sport pad for faster, heavier cars. We are not the manufacturer either, but rather Ferodo's North American importer and distributor. We do actually try our best to educate our dealers.

If you were trying to eliminate the squeal on the street that occurred with the DS1.11 (which it sounds like you were), then the DS2500 is a fine choice. The DS2500 is also about as close as one can get to a dual-purpose street/track pad. It does have its limitations however. There unfortunately aren't any 'free lunches' with brake pads. Pads that are designed to work well on the track make noise and dust on the street. Pads that are designed to work well on the street don't have the temperature threshold to last very long at track temps. The street and track environments are completely different, and the situation with brake pads is no different than tires, suspension, etc. A racing slick works well on the track, but it turns to hard plastic and has no grip on the street. An all season tire works great in foul weather, but has very limited grip on the track for numerous reasons. A suspension and alignment setup that are optimized for the track will feel terrible over ripples and potholes, and will chew your tires up. That same setup will be amazing on the track under load however. The situation with brake pads is no difference. There is always a compromise, and most people have to experiment a bit to find out which direction they lean. Some people lean towards the more hardcore side, and they're willing to put up with noise, dust, accelerated disc wear, etc. so they leave their full-blown race pads installed at all times so don't have to constantly change their pads. Others don't want to deal with the NVH and wear issues of running a full race pad on the street, so they leave milder pads in the calipers with the understanding that they won't last quite as long if they run them on the track. The upside to going that route is that they won't chew their discs up as quickly either. Again, it's all about compromises. There is no such thing as an end-all, be-all pad that performs optimally in every set of conditions. In our experience, the DS2500 is one that comes closer than just about all others.

Also of note, Sebring is particularly tough on brakes. If you were running your car at Willow Springs on street tires, the DS2500 would have certainly lasted far longer. In general, it's darn near impossible to make blanket statements about brakes, particularly wear rates. We have customers ask us all the time, "How long will these last on my car?" That is an impossible question to answer. Here are some variables that impact wear rates of pads and discs: Track configuration, tire compound, horsepower, tire width, length of session, aero, driver style and experience, suspension/alignment, etc. Any time you change one of those, you impact how your car will leverage its brakes. That makes it extremely difficult to predict what exactly will or will not work to someone's expectations at the track.

Finally, you mention running aftermarket discs of differing size vs. what came stock on your car. If you kept your calipers stock, then you've altered the front to rear brake bias on your car, which also impacts pad and disc wear. That's one more factor that comes into play in addition to the lengthy list above.

We do our best to recommend the best choices to our customers, but we can't cover every imaginable variable. In most cases, the driver is going to have to do some experimenting to find what works for them. That's just part of the process. Again though, one can't make valid blanket statements about what will or will not work for someone else. There are just far too many variables to consider.

Ferodo pad descriptions from our website:

DS2500

Although we always recommend using a dedicated race pad for the track, the DS2500 is one of the best hybrid street/track pads on the market. It features the moderately high bite and solid fade resistance of a track pad, with the relatively low dust and noise levels of a street pad. When used as a street pad, it can produce some squeal on certain vehicle platforms. During aggressive driving the DS2500 is known for its flat torque curve, which means as temperatures go up, the response through the brake pedal remains consistent. If you drive aggressively on the street, do some canyon runs, autoX, and maybe some light track duty on street tires, the DS2500 is tough to beat.

When used on high HP, heavier cars (2,800 lbs+) on the track with race tires, pad wear rates tend to be higher than on Ferodo Racing's other pad compounds. Under those conditions, Essex would recommend the Ferodo DS1.11 or DSUNO.

DS1.11

The DS1.11 is one of Ferodo Racing's latest endurance race pad offerings. It has slightly less bite at high temps. vs their older DS3000, but doesn't decompose nearly as quickly under extended heavy use on the track. The DS1.11 is known for its extremely flat torque curve, which means that as temperatures go up, the response through the brake pedal remains consistent. The DS1.11 can be thrashed all day without having it burn up or fade, it's easy on discs, and doesn't have many of the judder or vibration issues that competing products have. If you want an extremely solid, all around race pad that will perform well and last a long time, the DS1.11 is the perfect choice.

DSUNO

Ferodo Racing has made great strides in pad development over the past few years, and DSUNO is their latest offering. For our customers who enjoy the performance of the DS1.11, but just want a little more bite, we recommend the DSUNO. It doesn't wear quite as long as the DS1.11, but it does offer a higher overall mu once it reaches track temperatures.

JRitt@essex

Thanks for the offer..we appreciate it and will keep you in mind as a beta tester. We do occasionally have new compounds from the various manufacturers we work with, and we look to get miles on them. Thanks again!

If you ever want a full system like what we're doing for the GT3, keep us in mind. You may be right that the discs on your car are a bit undersized, particularly if you added power, sticky tires, etc. and are running Sebring!

mdrums

John Mclane

So, after some modifications in the car including Cup2s, V2 Dsc control box, ECU tuning From Mcchip (allegedly 500hp). I also tried to improve the brakes with apparently the cheapest solution, Pagid yellow pads on OEM rotors and Motul break fluid.

In hard track use, while The pads seems to be appropriate, the original rotors quickly overheated (shared car is an added issue), compromising break performance throughout the day. I know in part the problem is the lack of proper bedding of the pads into the used rotors. Overheat alone would improve by stepping back for a few laps, which didn't matter, so the rotors are beyond the level that I could use in the track, particularly the likes of Road America

It seems that I had the right impression from begin, that the original rotors are just not appropriate for hard track use no matter which pads are on. Suboptimal air ducts play a role, but I still think the disc size and material are the main issue.

Now I either go with Girodisc in the front ($1200) or front and back (another $1200) - which I think will not matter much as most of the breaking is done by the front anyway, or the most expensive and probably more effective solution, big brake kit from Brembo. I'll try to add GT3 cooling ducts. Stoptech seems to have a product too.

Do you guys have different experiences? Seems to me that the brakes are my only regret not buying the S model rather than the base. The Pagids were quite disappointing with the OEM discs.

Mr. Turtles

John, I had 2 different 991s ('12 and '15) and run in the PCA black group. To get any kind of life out of the brakes I had to run Pagid RS29 and Girodiscs. The stock rotors would crack badly after just a few days with the Pagids. I would go through about 2 sets of Pagids and still a little life in the Giro rotors. I'm pretty hard on my brakes and totally agree that the S and GTS don't have enough cooling. My new GT3 has been fine on stock rotors because they are larger and well cooled. A set of Giro's should last at least 20 DE days of 4x20-30 minute sessions. Also the rear pads will likely wear more quickly because of ABS but this depends on driving style and tires.

John Mclane

That's what I'm expecting. For now, the OEM discs still have a lot left on them . After road America next week, I'll have a better notion.
I think on this car the buck stops (no pun) at girodisc. Anything else would be cost prohibitive in relation to the current car value.

Fact is that the 991.2 doesn't take long to be outgrow, particularly after tuning the ECU, and brakes that simply can't keep with the car.
I may try wider tires in the near future. Unfortunately Michelin doesn't make Cup2 in 315 or 255.

TrackDays247.com

GiroDisc and Pagid - do it. We have em, PM or e-mail us. People love this combo, very satisfied!