Panamera P1363 Mystery Please Help
#1
Panamera P1363 Mystery Please Help
I have a 2011 Panamera 4 with 51K mileage on it, and I'm really hoping someone here will have some insight to help me out with this issue.
Recently while driving got a steady CEL popup and I turned around and went back home about 10mins.
Got home and checked the codes and got a P1363 which is the Valve Lift Control Solenoid on Bank 3 error.
Now I did have a slightly rough idle at start, but in honesty I have had that forever.
I had it towed to the Indy who ran their diagnostics and came back to say that the solenoid was "sluggish".
Stored DTC P1363 tested both solenoids and found passenger's side solenoid to have excessive resistance compared to the driver's side.
Valve Lift Control Solenoid failed, Recommend replacing the valve lift solenoid and valve timing solenoid as a pair for the passenger's side.
Here is the problem. After they replaced both Valve Lift and Valve Timing Solenoids. They drove it and when they checked again it had pending fault codes stored again for P1363.
They cleared it and it seemed to come back in memory. No CEL Light yet but they say it will still come back on.
So they would like to get to the bottom of it. So they are trying to do further diagnosis and are suspecting it is a faulty Camshaft.
I'm confused at how a P1363 would be a faulty camshaft, as I would expect it to present with Misfires and other issues.
My Porsche experience has been very truamatic.
On my first Porsche a Cayenne I had the infamous HPFP failure which of course I had to pay for until they finally admitted it was an issue many years later after.
As this is my second Porsche I'm almost inclined to give up on this brand. There are just too many serious issues that I've had over the years.
This car has had a complete failure of the water pump fairly early on, luckily this happened as I was pulling into my driveway, all the coolant ended up on my garage floor 30 mins later (pump replaced under AFPO)
Both Engine mounts failed and had to be replaced, I actually didn't believe them and had a second opinion to confirm.
The timing cover bolts were shearing in the engine but somehow was not a recall and cost a fortune to fix. Recently Porsche changed the guidance that the engine no longer has to come down for it after I had mine done (FML).
If I have to really replace a Camshaft, I'll just junk the car and stick with another brand like Mercedes.
If anyone has any advice on this P1363, I'd really appreciate it.
Recently while driving got a steady CEL popup and I turned around and went back home about 10mins.
Got home and checked the codes and got a P1363 which is the Valve Lift Control Solenoid on Bank 3 error.
Now I did have a slightly rough idle at start, but in honesty I have had that forever.
I had it towed to the Indy who ran their diagnostics and came back to say that the solenoid was "sluggish".
Stored DTC P1363 tested both solenoids and found passenger's side solenoid to have excessive resistance compared to the driver's side.
Valve Lift Control Solenoid failed, Recommend replacing the valve lift solenoid and valve timing solenoid as a pair for the passenger's side.
Here is the problem. After they replaced both Valve Lift and Valve Timing Solenoids. They drove it and when they checked again it had pending fault codes stored again for P1363.
They cleared it and it seemed to come back in memory. No CEL Light yet but they say it will still come back on.
So they would like to get to the bottom of it. So they are trying to do further diagnosis and are suspecting it is a faulty Camshaft.
I'm confused at how a P1363 would be a faulty camshaft, as I would expect it to present with Misfires and other issues.
My Porsche experience has been very truamatic.
On my first Porsche a Cayenne I had the infamous HPFP failure which of course I had to pay for until they finally admitted it was an issue many years later after.
As this is my second Porsche I'm almost inclined to give up on this brand. There are just too many serious issues that I've had over the years.
This car has had a complete failure of the water pump fairly early on, luckily this happened as I was pulling into my driveway, all the coolant ended up on my garage floor 30 mins later (pump replaced under AFPO)
Both Engine mounts failed and had to be replaced, I actually didn't believe them and had a second opinion to confirm.
The timing cover bolts were shearing in the engine but somehow was not a recall and cost a fortune to fix. Recently Porsche changed the guidance that the engine no longer has to come down for it after I had mine done (FML).
If I have to really replace a Camshaft, I'll just junk the car and stick with another brand like Mercedes.
If anyone has any advice on this P1363, I'd really appreciate it.
#2
Could the underlying problem be low oil pressure?
The way the valve timing/lift control system works is that the solenoids open and close a valve that sends oil, under pressure from the engine oil pump, to a mechanism in the head that mechanically changes the valve timing. I can imagine that, if the oil pressure is low, that whole system might appear to operate sluggishly, and the solenoids are the easiest thing to blame.
As I recall, the Panamera has an electronically variable oil pump, so it may not be that you need an engine overhaul or whatever, but possibly just a different solenoid or something. I think what I'd do is check the oil pressure, particularly when this issue is happening, and then compare that number to whatever the service manual says.
Edit: Other things to check:
1. Which solenoids were replaced? It looks like there are at least four,
2. Do you have the right oil viscosity? Is the engine oil old or contaminated with sludge or fuel or anything?
3. The solenoids have little screens that keep debris from getting into the VVT system. Did they also clean or replace these when the solenoids were changed?
The way the valve timing/lift control system works is that the solenoids open and close a valve that sends oil, under pressure from the engine oil pump, to a mechanism in the head that mechanically changes the valve timing. I can imagine that, if the oil pressure is low, that whole system might appear to operate sluggishly, and the solenoids are the easiest thing to blame.
As I recall, the Panamera has an electronically variable oil pump, so it may not be that you need an engine overhaul or whatever, but possibly just a different solenoid or something. I think what I'd do is check the oil pressure, particularly when this issue is happening, and then compare that number to whatever the service manual says.
Edit: Other things to check:
1. Which solenoids were replaced? It looks like there are at least four,
2. Do you have the right oil viscosity? Is the engine oil old or contaminated with sludge or fuel or anything?
3. The solenoids have little screens that keep debris from getting into the VVT system. Did they also clean or replace these when the solenoids were changed?
Last edited by MR2Aaron; 06-07-2024 at 01:35 PM.
#3
I would suggest all high-end German cars (as well as Italian, British, and even Japanese) all have their share of issues... that said, don't see departing Porsche will be the answer to your long-term issues.
Plenty of stories with all the other brands too... but, we can all emphasize with your situation and understand if you do decide to move on.
As for me, I can surely attest to issues encountered with my 89 944 Turbo and 89 928, but that is age-related. My '15 PTS has been fabulous to date, but doesn't mean I can't have a major issue tomorrow.
I am truly hopeful you can get this resolved and get the car back on the road again...
Plenty of stories with all the other brands too... but, we can all emphasize with your situation and understand if you do decide to move on.
As for me, I can surely attest to issues encountered with my 89 944 Turbo and 89 928, but that is age-related. My '15 PTS has been fabulous to date, but doesn't mean I can't have a major issue tomorrow.
I am truly hopeful you can get this resolved and get the car back on the road again...
#4
Update. So based on the feedback I had lengthy discussions with the Indy shop on this issue, they started from the basics and did a full engine flush and replaced the oil with addition of Liqui-Moly MoS2 Anti-Friction Engine Treatment.
Strangely after that they cleared the codes and did a bunch of road test runs and the code hasn't come back.
Considering that the code would come back after clearing it within 3-10 mile run previously they now think it might have been the oil either being low, contaminated or insert oil gremlin here.
For whatever reason it seems to be fine for now. I've had the car back for a couple of days and no codes
Obviously I am not pleased with the expensive solenoid replacement which I'm still on the fence as to whether it was the issue.
This leaves me questioning what benefit there was to the solenoid replacement in the first place other than they are now replaced.
Considering the additional $1700 cost for replacing those 2 solenoids alone with most of that being labor costs, seems like throwing parts at my expense.
Maybe I'm just venting, but am I wrong on thinking that they would bear some of the labor cost? Maybe I'm wrong on that issue.
Strangely after that they cleared the codes and did a bunch of road test runs and the code hasn't come back.
Considering that the code would come back after clearing it within 3-10 mile run previously they now think it might have been the oil either being low, contaminated or insert oil gremlin here.
For whatever reason it seems to be fine for now. I've had the car back for a couple of days and no codes
Obviously I am not pleased with the expensive solenoid replacement which I'm still on the fence as to whether it was the issue.
This leaves me questioning what benefit there was to the solenoid replacement in the first place other than they are now replaced.
Considering the additional $1700 cost for replacing those 2 solenoids alone with most of that being labor costs, seems like throwing parts at my expense.
Maybe I'm just venting, but am I wrong on thinking that they would bear some of the labor cost? Maybe I'm wrong on that issue.
#5
It's porsche business, they replace expensives parts and after the less expensives parts.
They need an obligation of results, if after replacement it's the same problem you don't need to pay these parts.
They need an obligation of results, if after replacement it's the same problem you don't need to pay these parts.
Last edited by Marcus13190; 06-15-2024 at 10:14 AM.