Again, the Panamera (especially its E-Hybrids) sell well in Europe and China, and as such, Panamera will continue at least in E-Hybrid form until ICEVs are totally phased out toward the end of this decade. You guys are all talking mainly about USA sales.

 

I was at a Porsche store in Florida on Friday and saw an older couple (about my age), ordering a new 4s.

 

Agree, however ICE vehicles will not be phased out by 2030 in the Untied States.
Now, there are plenty out there who would like / want that to happen, including the carmakers.
But, as we all know, the U.S. is kinda different.
If it happens by 2050 in this country I'll consider it a miracle lol.

 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...ongside-taycan

 

"The 911, we know, will be the last Porsche model to ditch combustion, but the Panamera is already sold with a 2.9-litre electrified V6, so a variant of this format with a longer electric-only range could see the model retain its petrol motor into the next generation." [from the article] ... I wonder if this was a paraphrase of a comment from Blume, or just the author's speculation...

 

It appears that new ICEVs will no longer be legally sold in some states like California, Massachusetts, and elsewhere by 2030-2035. Used ICEVs will hang around for decades after that, just as used cars are still on the streets that were manufactured long ago in the 20th century, of course. The BEV revolution is heating up quickly and will probably be most cars sold by 2030. If you think otherwise, you aren't paying attention to the automotive industry and its affiliated industries. Check out this interesting interview with Sandy Munro that's just been posted on YouTube, in which Munro talks about how many of the big traditional automakers have made a potentially fatal mistake by not going all-in on BEVs several years ago:

 

I don't believe the Panamera and the Taycan play in the same segment. The Panamera is more luxurious, bigger, and more practical. In an interview with GoAuto Australia after the global premiere of the facelift 2021 Panamera, Porsche product line vice-president Dr. Thomas Friemuth disclosed that a full-electric version of the Panamera is currently being considered. "We have to think where are the markets going and we have to now follow what’s happening with our Taycan – our smaller limousine in terms of battery electric vehicles – and then we will see in the future what is happening," Friemuth said. "Porsche doesn't see any overlap between these two cars," Friemuth said.

 

Long term the dino stuff will die but European adoption rates will not occur in the US. As we're on a Porsche forum consider this brand: Not long ago they were going to be 100% on roughly your timeline. Now they have 3 models which may or may not be all BEV next gen with no end date mentioned. They're saying 911s may well be gas long into the future. All it took was a whole bunch of people saying they're not ready for the party to be over and their tune changed in little more than a year.

I don't know a single person who will move over to 100‰ BEV until charging happens in the same timeframe a gas car fills up, that alone is enough to keep them from making the move. In fairness I do know a few that have a Tesla, but it's their city car, they will not take trips with it and own another car. That's anecdotal but where I'm heading is the US is very different in how we drive compared to the people who kicked us out of the more respectable countries across the pond. Cheap gas, lots of good roads, money to waste, a culture that grew up with cars, etc. You can't use those numbers and expect them to apply here. Think about it; we killed a half a million people with COVID through nothing more than arrogance, ignorance, and a strong belief among our corporate overlords that they won't be the ones who die but they'll get their money no matter what happens. But you think people who find rolling coal entertaining willl buy in?

I can only wish I shared your confidence.

 

You may be right. However, it is definitely too soon to say. The Taycan was a brand new vehicle with a lot of anticipation amongst P-Car people. Lots of pent up demand. The Panny was in its final year before its mid-cycle refresh (which was known). Depresses demand.

Fast forward to today. There are a *lot* of Taycans sitting on lots and decent deals can easily be had.

Like I say, you may be right. But I'd like to see 2021 and 2022 sales numbers before putting nails into coffins.

 

Hi guys, new to the forum and still new to Porsche's but hopefully not for long. I've been looking at buying a used 17+ Panamera, and once this pandemic has finally calmed down I plan on pulling the trigger. I came across this thread while doing some research and felt compelled to put my 2 cents in.

A lot of people, (not just on this thread) seem to believe that the ICE is dead. I disagree. While I would agree that there is and will be a surge in electric sales, my gut tells me that many of these new startups are going to fail due to various reasons. I see a lot of over-promising from some companies right now in the electric vehicle department on range, price, quality, charging speed, etc. and some people are willing to put up with it, and some aren't. Looking at the sales numbers, considering we have a pandemic raging right now, they don't scare me. But the biggest issue EV's face right now is charging infrastructure. All you need to do is look at this last cold spell in Texas to see that our electric grid is not ready to handle much more than we have right now. This may change some day, but we have a lot of work to do to get there. Even Elon Musk has admitted that we need to do better on that. That being said, I hope we get there. That Taycan is a pretty sweet looking ride, I'd take it over the Tesla in a heartbeat. Personally, until I start seeing ALL the gas stations start putting in charging stations, the ICE vehicle is here to stay a LOT longer.

 

panamera biggest issue is lack 5 seats. absurd such a large car doesnt fit 3 in back. families need that for kids. taycan biggest issue is lack of tesla charging convenience. yeah its more of a drivers car but that doesnt motivate like readily available fast charging.

 

I would love to upgrade from my 2014 PGTS but the difference between the trade-in value and the 2021 GTS exceeds 6 figures. It's not worth the coin IMO.

 

The Taycan is also noticeably smaller on the inside, despite similar exterior dimensions. In every seat it's not difficult to perceive the difference. And as limited as the +1 seat may be in the backseat of the Panamera, in the Taycan it's really not usable even in a pinch.

 

true they are just not packaged well. tesla is so spacious while pana and taycan are borderline claustrophobic.

 

I like it being 4 seat, I've no need to carry 5 and it makes it better for the 2 that are back there. If I did actually need 5 seating I would buy something else because passenger number 5 wouldn't be having any fun. All that said you can now option the bench for those that want it. I do agree on the packaging, I've never seen a car this big with so little storage for small random crap.