Hello everyone, 1st post, so bear with me!

I am seriously considering buying either a new/slightly used 4 or 4S and have a few questions as I've never owned a Porsche before so here it goes:
1 - I drive appx 20,000miles/year - I'm concerned about racking up this kind of mileage on these cars, however I'm reading reliability is above average. How is maintenance? will I be paying for $ 1000 oil changes? I believe the intervals are every 10K?
2 - with the amount of mileage I put on, do I need wheel and tire insurance? I plan on getting a car w/ 20's on it (all season). I currently drive a BMW 550ix and the wheels have been terrible (run flats don't help)
3 - 2021's are getting a mid cycle update from what I'm reading - is there any ETA on when these will hit dealer lots? need to decide if its worth the extra $$$ and wait, I couldn't find too many details on it other than some spy shots.
4 - I'm cross shopping BMW M5, M550, and Benz E63 FWIW. I realize the 4 is not really comparable to the M5/E63, but also keeping an eye on budget.

That's all I have for now, appreciate any input!

Aceman

 

Ive owned a Cayenne TT 2011 for 3 years, and other than having a couple things covered under recall, and having to the replace the AC blower (which is an easy DIY) its been rock solid, and has 94k miles on it (20k of which Ive put on it since ownership) Ive no intention on selling it at this point unless a killer deal comes around with a Cayenne with a HUD in the next few years Love me some HUD (wife hates them though)

Also, I just bought a 2017 Panamera TT for the wife... CPO, 17k miles and loaded with about $60k in options. 2017 was the 1st year of the 971, a major upgrade over the 970 from 2010-16 In technology and especially in styling....

It seems that 3 years of depreciation typically will get you 50% off of MSRP, and will have at least 1 year of warranty left, and if CPO, add on 2 more years of warranty. If you own the car for 3 years, it will depreciate only another 25-30%, so ive found it to be a sweet spot for getting reliable low mileage cars for 1/2 the price of new that still have factory warranty for the duration of ownership if you choose to trade in after 3 years.

I haven’t owned it long enough to say much regarding the wheels/tires, but Ive read there does seem to be something about the tires taking a beating when running in sport modes, so the tire/wheel warranty might be a good idea. Oil changes at the dealership run around $250-300, depending on where you go i guess.

Personally, I find the Panamera by far the best combo of performance, luxury and styling of any of its competitors... as in its not really even close. The 971 is just an absolutely gorgeous sedan, but especially with PDCC, Air suspension, rear wheel steering, and PTV, its drives more like a 911 than a 4K lb 4 door sedan.

There are tons of reviews on YouTube on the 971, and comparing it to the M5 and E63... the vast majority of what Ive seen were of the consensus that you're getting the best of all worlds in performance, comfort, and luxury in the Panamera comparatively speaking. Not to say that the M5 and E63 aren’t great cars, but personally, I find the E63 unattractive, and didnt even consider the M5 once my wife drove the Panamera.... and this was after a day of her driving an Aston Martin, several different Land Rovers, and some Jaguar sedan. Once she drove the Panamera, she knew that was the one....

If you’re a huge fan of HUD like me, then wait a year or so and get a 2019 which was the 1st year they put the HUD in the Panameras... not a whole lot of them out there at the moment with a nice assortment of options.

GL with your search!

 

I would wager that the mid-cycle refresh will also include the ability for CarPlay to take up the entire width of the screen (as in the current Cayenne). That may or may not matter to you but I thought worth mentioning. Ultimately I'm speculating though it seems logical that Porsche would spread this feature through the line.

As for the car itself, I concur with @BladeMD in that to me the 971 represents the perfect combination of performance and luxury. I'd also throw in practicality/utility in Sport Turismo form. Anything but the Turbo S e-Hybrid may give up 11/10ths straight line performance to the M5 or E63S. But I could never live with either of those two as daily drivers *especially* not at 20k miles/year. Way too harsh for my backside. I don't like feeling like my head's been inside a blender after a drive. The Panamera is like a cruise missile. We moved recently...roughly 180 miles, and I made several same-day there/backs between places, sometimes with little more than a quick drop off before the return journey. A total delight to drive.

Re: wheel/tire package note that it doesn't include normal wear. But, it does include curb rash (sometimes there's a limit to this though...read the find print), bubbles, bent wheels, etc. How are the roads where you're driving those 20k miles? If "awful" then I'd get the wheel/tire package. Less important with 20s than 21s, but still. The other thing you could do is drive a year and self-insure. See how it goes. If the roads are eating your wheels and/or tires, you can always buy wheel/tire down the road. Ha.

Some must-have options: sport chrono, sport exhaust, RWS.

I'd lean hard 4S vs 4, or e-Hybrid vs 4...

 

Yes reliability better than most German counterparts.
with that reliability comes $
pay to play as they say

it’s slightly more expensive than Audi maintenance, but not an arm and a leg.
you have a 550xi currently and maintenance on that isn’t cheap either.

you will enjoy the drive of the panamera more than the 550 I think.

it’s the best of all worlds. Sport. Luxury. Practicality. Refinement.

it’s worth the extra $

with the Amt of driving you do: tire and wheel protection is a must. mainly for the tires

be prepared to eat **** on depreciation cuz of mileage.
but again. Worth it.

 

Thanks guys - appreciate the input. I live (unfortunately) in NJ, and even though our taxes our sky high, the $$$ doesn't translate to good roads
Depreciation is going to be bad..thus why I was thinking lightly used...but there are not a ton of choices out there. I currently drive the 550ix as my DD, with a 2015 stingray as the toy, so I'm seriously leaning 4S vs. 4. One thing I absolutely freaking love about the Porsche over the BMW and somewhat the Benz...23.7 gallon gas tank is awesome for range.

For Wheel & Tire - yes I was not talking about normal wear (don't think anyone warrants that)...just bubbles/bent rims/etc. I guess the 20's aren't too bad in this regard?

Aceman

 

https://finder.porsche.com/us/en_US/...7%3Bmax%3A2020

Good news is that there are more choices out there than you may be aware .... and all of those are gonna be CPO. I found mine via the Porsche Finder in Colorado, negotiated the deal and the trade and had it shipped to my home in FL, and my trade shipped to them. Go test drive something local and make sure you like it, then find the one with the options that are important to you via the finder and negotiate

 

1. You should be concerned with mileage and maintenance. I'd expect repairs to be 20% less frequent than BMW but cost 20% more so about even. Oil changes are pretty cheap $150-250 maybe but i think my brakes and rotors were a couple grand.
2. Get winter and summer tires if you live in area with winters. Much better tires and ride
3. unknown
4. I came from a 2017 E300 (wanted E63 but wasn't out in new gen yet) to a 2010 Panamera Turbo and everything is much better. Ride is much better, much more rear leg room, and rear passengers don't feel car sick (likely my driving but much better in Porsche). I do miss massage seats, active bolsters and drive pilot plus (even though never actually works). I drove multiple MB's including E63, AMG GT 63S and M5 they might be quicker but quality and performance doesn't match. These things are beasts in the corner. I'm amazed how it can get close to 1g lateral in the corners for a 4000lb car.

 

The conventional wisdom is that smaller is better in terms of surviving road hazards with 20s being the tipping point, get past that and you're much more likely to get into damage. As an example there are several threads here where people in this section damaged the stock 21s, had blowouts and so on, but none on the 20s or 19s. You can of course break any wheel and I suspect some of that is the fact that most go for the 21s making them more likely to be busticated. Also on the side of the smaller wheels is the that increasing the unsprung weight and moment of inertia reduces performance in every measurable metric. Not sure it really matters with this car but that's for you to decide.

At this point the refresh looks to be delayed or will push into MY22 with Porsche having confirmed nothing about the timing or what's getting upgraded. There are a few spy shots out there you can search for and some guesses about what might be included. The updated PCM is probably a no-brainer as being included. Talk of mild-hybridization has been in several of the rumors. I think the most interesting thing going back a while was the coupe concept that looked rather savory in renders.
Good choice on going with the 4S over the 4, you really need that extra power to attain an acceptable level of go in a at this price point. As mentioned above I'd check out the hybrid as well and see if it pings for you.

The wagon is more of a styling exercise than anything else as it has the same cabin and only 3% more storage in the rear. It can however be good for convincing the significant other that you're being practical and dog owners report the lower lift-over into the rear as being a real benefit for doggie travelers that may be riding along.

Last thing worth mentioning is that there is one option every owner should get: Sport Chrono. This gives you sport plus which is truly a notch above sport and also puts the **** on the wheel which means you'll actually use your modes instead of not so much which is what happens when you have to tap a menu button on the PCM. That in turn unlocks the cars potential because you can instantly go from slogging in traffic mode to uncaging the beast and back again as demands dictate. Seriously, there are very few options on any car I've owned which I would call a must have for almost any owner but Chrono is a different story; the car is not complete without it.

 

I was pleasantly surprised as to how well the E-Hybrid ran on 21s, very comfortable but retains the sporty profile. I imagine the battery weight and distribution balance has something to do with that. After driving AMG Mercedes for many years I was concerned about power delivery and torque levels but that battery power helps a ton so you have a pretty decent 516 ft lbs in the base Hybrid w/ ICE. The E-Hybrid also comes with air suspension and Sport Chrono as standard. I do recommend a drive and comparison with the 4S to see which you prefer. For sure, get a CPO which is most likely if you are looking at nearly new - simple issues can be very expensive repairs (ask me how I know). Good luck with your search.

 

Thanks guys - appreciate the input. Crabman - Sport Chrono was not on my list, I will be sure to start reading up on it - thx much for the advice!
I spoke to a dealer today, really nice guy, he told me to wait for the 21 but wasn't sure when that would be, his best guess was order it sometime in September.
Sounds like the 20's are holding up ok, I'm sure a lot of that is the fact that they are not runflats - will continue to search on that one as well.

Aceman

 

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In my opinion there is no finer combination of performance, luxury, and utility. That said the Porsche tax is much more real on this model than others I have owned.

Invest the time to learn to do maintenance yourself. At least in the Chicago area, every trip to the dealer where they recommend a service has resulted in estimates well over $1,000.

Most things are not that bad to do if you have any skills at all. Just know there are no real resources out there so you will be learning on your own.

As far as reliability I had my fair share of issues, but the larger problem is parts availability.

Experiment with doing your own work so you don’t grimace with every service and you’ll adore the car.

 

If you're worried about taxes only one for you. Montana... I looked into ordering a 2021 for months no dealer could tell me when one would be in. I'm not going to spend over a 100k on a car with no delivery date. Also even the 4's aren't that much less then the 4s's The lease price on the 4s is considerably higher. The dealers want you to wait for the 21's because most of them don't have any inventory and know they'll lose the sale.

Just remember if you go the used route, the used car market right now is awfully high. In a few years you'll feel it depreciation wise. Most cars have gone up easy 5-10k since covid...