Hi all,

I am considering a very low mileage pre -owned Panamera Turbo Sport Turismo and wanted to get some feedback on the car and build.

Build:: Night Blue Metallic, Luxor Beige / dark brown interior, 21 Turbo Wheel, ACC, Interior Ambient Lighting, Palao Wood, 4 Way Climate, Premium Package Plus.


What do you think of the build?
Are there any options a must?
Will this car still be fun to drive without Sport Chrono, PDCC etc?
Is this car going to be obsolete in the US, making the car worth very little in a few years?
Should I get the Cayenne Turbo


Coupe with rear steering, ptv, PDCC instead for more fun?

Thanks in advance.

 

Fantastic car. Few options are must have - the ‘base’ Turbo is amazing. I ordered mine, but most of specs were appearance based and also avoiding specific options I did’t want. At this point, the car is a bargain so the biggest depreciation hit has occurred. Go for it. MUCH better looking than the sedan version. Completely calm DD with outrageous performance on demand. I also have an E63 wagon (‘14) which I also ordered and the PST is a much better car.

 

PS Cayenne is a TRUCK.
from today’s NYTimes

In the rest of the world, the station wagon is a popular car,” Mr. Kitman said. “In the U.S., they’ve become cars for rich people.”

He added: “They don’t get the fancy leases. They don’t get the cash back. They’re for people who know cars, people who are smart and they have more money. But they’ve deprived the rest of us.”

 

Too early to know where the ST values will end up compared to the sedan; my guess would be lower in the US where station wagon means to people of my generation an uncool car that uncool moms and their uncool brats drive around doing things that are utterly uncool. I say this liking the look of the ST better than the sedan but I would not buy one because the stigma is strong. Then again speaking of people who know cars the ST has little extra room in the rear or any other added utility, with the Panamera you're primarily buying the look when you go that way.

The rear wheel steering is great but this doesn't really play out on the road, it's in the parking garage you appreciate it. PDCC most def can be felt on the road but the car does pretty well without it, your call on the value after test driving one with and one without. IMO the car was still fun to drive without it and the PDCC was 5k making it an option a lot of people skipped. I would not own the car without Chrono, sport plus transforms the car into it's best possible self and having the modes at your fingertips means you use them to their full value. If you have to access them from the screen you'll use them less and get less value out of the car because you wont be using it's full capabilities. By this I mean the Panamera can do luxury, cruiser, grocery getter, GT duty, and it's best imitation of sports car hero but you have to access the modes to fully access that range and you'll do it a lot less from the screen and give up the best mode entirely. The other thing that stands out are the parking cameras, the Panamera is not exactly a small car and they make life easier. I could live without them and do but I wish I had them. I do have the rest of those options and have tried cars with and without in all cases. One I have but cant comment on is the torque vectoring, maybe it's doing something, maybe not, I could not tell the difference in test drives.

As far as the Cayenne, it's a more useful car in a big box world but it does not drive as well, not even close. I'm not beating the car up when I say that, they've done great things with it but there is no getting around the physics involved. If Utility is high on your list it may be a better vehicle, if not the Panamera is easier to recommend. One thing that is a bit of a tangent but certainly important is you can get a much better optioned Cayenne at a dollar per dollar spend.

t would recommend you consider test driving enough of these to get an idea of how you value those options you mention. Patience will get you the car you want but you have to figure out what that is first and with the Panamera you really need to get a feel for what's on offer if you're going to make solid choices.

 

So the sport options aren't really needed to ensure this a fun car to drive?

The vehicle I'm coming out of is my 2011 Cayenne Turbo with 130k miles!

I have 3 young kids so the middle seat will get occasional use. I need fun and some practicality but most important is fun!

 

Depending on the asking price, you may be getting a really good deal. As Steven stated, the biggest depreciation has already been experienced by the original owner. What I might suggest is getting CPO warranty with the purchase to cover any unforseen problems down the line. Other than that, the "base" Turbo is great all in itself. Having the Premium Plus option is a great addition along with the 21" wheels. All the other options you listed are just "wants" and not necessarily "needs". If you're really on the fence about the PDCC and Sport Chrono, I would suggest that you drive a Panamera ST with those options and see if you're really missing them on your drive. Lastly, the reason why I chose the Sport Turismo over a Macan/Cayenne is the fact that I wanted to have my cake and eat it too. With the Panamera ST, you have the ability to drive a vehicle that is much lower to the ground (compared to a SUV) and also able to carry things such as skis or my oddly large purchases from my occasional Costco runs. I like the dwelling on the fact that in a sea of SUVs, I'll be able to enjoy a vehicle with the stance of a sports car but the "room" of a SUV. At the end of the day though, the price has to be right on this particular car. If it ticks the boxes for you, and it makes sense, I say do it! Good luck.

 

krabman, I see it differently.

Have you looked at values of E63s wagons, throughout the years? High initial price, and slow depreciation, compared with other M-B vehicles. Used examples in good condition sell quickly. The Panamera Turbo ST is a directly comparable vehicle to the E63s wagon. Barring catastrophic Porsche-unique or ST-unique issues, ST depreciation, particularly the turbo, should be favorable vs the sedan.

 

When the Panamera ST Turbo was introduced, its nearest competitor was the Mercedes E63 Wagon, which had also just been introduced and was priced $60k less. Driving both, the PST Turbo was infinitely more resolved and better made, so the only real issue was the price. Because they were overpriced, the PST did not sell well and one can now buy a leftover or VERY low mileage 2019 for almost $40k off MSRP which eliminates the only issue. Also, the Turbo is the sweet spot - the hybrid TurboS is MUCH too heavy. Compared with the reviews of the new Audi RS6 Avant, the Turbo ST will out perform it and is a much better car. As to longer term resale value, I believe that hot rod wagons are in increasing demand - Hagerty Insurance agrees and if you follow E63 and Cadillac wagons on BaT, it looks that they also have a large fan base. On the other hand, the NYTimes a year ago did a comparison of side profiles of SUV’s - masking the wheel characters and all white. It was almost impossible to tell them apart.

As to the car you are considering, if you are concerned about options, I’d widen the search - there are many available.

 

I've found the Pana ST to be a great family car (and for a big dog). Amazing used buy with low miles and Porsche CPO 6yr warranty.
The base engine with sports exhaust option has good sound (and perhaps "sounds fast" even when you're not really going that much quicker).
I've come to appreciate thermally insulated glass as a nice freeway option - interior cabin is very quiet.
The night vision option is pretty useless. It's a fun gimmick, but you don't really use it.

In comparing my Pana ST to my wife's BMW 640 Gran Turismo, I do like her parking camera's "overhead" view and the BMW's rear steering makes the car very easy to maneuver in parking lots. PDK is far superior paddle shifting compared to the BMW's automatic's paddle shifting in "manual" mode. Our BMW has the 4 grand "dynamic handling package", but the Porsche (base) Pana ST ride in normal/sports is much better. Keep in mind I'm comparing cars that had a $50,000 difference in their MSRP+options.

I've posted in the forums about the cargo net that can go behind the front seats - very useful with big dogs.

Best Pana ST feature though: adjustable rear spoiler!

 

I actually have both cars you are considering (2019 CTT with $160K plus MSRP and a 2017 PTT $174K MSRP).. well close since mine is not a Sport Tourismo. The PTT is much more fun, dynamic but it often gets sat in the garage in favor of my Cayenne Turbo. I often thought about trading in my PTT for the Sport Tourismo Turbo S that my dealer had but it really does not compare to the utlity value of the Cayenne. The Sport Tourismo has a bit more room overall but is it really a noticeable difference? I, particularly don't think so. It is the extra room that much more useable? I am not sure. I don't know what your home or family situation is but I have a family in addition to 2 very large golden retrievers and the room in my Cayenne makes it more useable for me.

I love both cars equally as they serve different purposes for me. I am not on board with the ST being more useable daily cause of the additional room.

To put into perspective, I've owned the 970.1, 970.2 and now the 971..all turbos. I've owned the 957.1, 958.1 and now the new Cayenne all in turbo form. SO, I like to the think I Am speaking objectively for my needs. They are both specc'd very similarly with all the driving enhancers checked on both vehicles (PDCC, PTV, RWS ...)

If I had to have just one Porsche for everyday, the Cayenne is better suited for that purpose.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

Does the ST Turbo still come with Sport Plus mode without the Sport Chrono package?

 

My 2018 Turbo ST is far and away the best car I've ever owned. I absolutely love it. I would not get one without RWS, ACC, and Sport Chrono. Check cargurus or another site that aggregates nationwide inventory. I'd bet you $1 that you can find either a still-new or barely used 2018 at a ridiculously attractive price that's equipped a little better than the one you've found.

BTW I take issue with the notion that the ST isn't of meaningfully greater utility than the regular Panny. Though the trunk volume is only an additional 3 cubic feet in the ST, it's right where you want it much of the time - vertical load height. Further and maybe even more importantly, the rear hatch opens all the way to the load floor in the ST. There's no lip as there is on the sedan. Makes it much easier for my dog to jump in and out, and much easier to load/unload stuff. The Cayenne may be of greater utility than the ST but at the end of the day it will never drive nearly as well as the Panamera. I also don't find it to be as refined. Neighbor has a very heavily optioned Cayenne Turbo and I'd be happy to own one, but not nearly as happy as I am to own the ST

 

You could be right, I said it's hard to guess because the market is still depressed from all the ST's that had been languishing on the lots and that's put pressure on the used marked. Still early days so we'll have to wait for it to sort out. If I'm wrong I'll take the requisite forum beating without trying to spin it.

The lower lip is helpful but lets remember that the sedan is 47.3 versus the 49 even for the ST which is a 3.47% increase totaling 1.7 cubic feet in a triangular shape at the very back roof. It's a real difference and the location is good but I'm not seeing 1.7 cubic feet as something most would call meaningful as a buying factor. I think it's a styling choice, a way to sneak a fun car past the significant other, and others are buying it without realizing that Porsche pulled a fast one on them. I should also mention you have a couple outliers that are looking for a lower lip so the dogs can jump in more easily.. . Just as last time we spoke I think the vast majority of buyers simply like the look and the rest is rationalization. I'm doubtful that many who prefer the look of the sedan pick up the ST over it to garner the 3.47% increased storage; that's just noise. I fully agree with the rest of your post. I find the Panamera does most everything I did with a line of crossovers that preceded it but I actually enjoy driving it. I very much like this car; I dont' think driving a ST would change my opinion although the shame might lead me to drinking.

 

Lol

 

FWIW - a husky can clear the lip in the regular Panny without any trouble whatsoever! But the swooped rear hatch does impact cargo space for sure - and especially where a dog can sit.
It's pretty much a 3 person + dog car where the Cayenne or ST would be a 4 person + dog vehicle. If that matters. Doesn't to me, but my kids are grown up now.