Panamera going bye-bye in the US?
01-09-2020, 05:02 PM
#31
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01-09-2020, 06:58 PM
#32
Burning Brakes
Heh. Yeah it's a BIG car. But I got used to it very quickly. Never been to Lagos, but have definitely traveled in some European nations filled with narrow roads and even more narrow cars!
I found the link, and it's from just a few weeks ago. The language is a little confusing though. It says: "According to Porsche North America boss Klaus Zellmer, the Panamera Sport Turismo makes up a mere 10% of all Panamera sales in the United States – a mere 800 in total, virtually nothing. By contrast, Zellmer says the take rate in Europe is more than 50%. "
However, total North American Panamera total sales were about 5000 in 2017, 7000 in 2018, and 6500 in 2019. If the take rate is truly 10%, then that would indicate about 1850 sold to date. A few thoughts:
- I *think* the ST was introduced slightly later than the sedan, so perhaps it's 10% of a smaller number.
- The 2017 sales must include some leftover 2016s, again shrinking the denominator.
- Based on what I've observed in the marketplace, an *awful* lot of STs were (are) left still looking for owners.
- What seems to happen every time a manufacturer introduces a wagon in the US is that all the car nerds who really want one buy one - and that number is far lower than the number of forum posters and reviewers who declare them the best thing ever - and then pretty much no one else does.
Given all that, I wouldn't be surprised if that 800 number is more or less correct.
I found the link, and it's from just a few weeks ago. The language is a little confusing though. It says: "According to Porsche North America boss Klaus Zellmer, the Panamera Sport Turismo makes up a mere 10% of all Panamera sales in the United States – a mere 800 in total, virtually nothing. By contrast, Zellmer says the take rate in Europe is more than 50%. "
However, total North American Panamera total sales were about 5000 in 2017, 7000 in 2018, and 6500 in 2019. If the take rate is truly 10%, then that would indicate about 1850 sold to date. A few thoughts:
- I *think* the ST was introduced slightly later than the sedan, so perhaps it's 10% of a smaller number.
- The 2017 sales must include some leftover 2016s, again shrinking the denominator.
- Based on what I've observed in the marketplace, an *awful* lot of STs were (are) left still looking for owners.
- What seems to happen every time a manufacturer introduces a wagon in the US is that all the car nerds who really want one buy one - and that number is far lower than the number of forum posters and reviewers who declare them the best thing ever - and then pretty much no one else does.
Given all that, I wouldn't be surprised if that 800 number is more or less correct.
Not sure exactly what "take rate" means, but I assume that it means that 50% of all Panameras sold in Europe the last year or two are Sport Turismos?
I don't understand why Europeans like wagons and Americans don't...
01-09-2020, 08:23 PM
#33
6th Gear
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Hey SUPWAGON - I am looking at a ST and was worried my dog (Rhodesian Ridgeback, ~80lbs) would not fit in the back. Is this photo with the seats down? I can't tell. Seems that it must be. What is the net you are using here if you don't mind me asking? Thank you!
01-09-2020, 08:55 PM
#34
see this thread. There is a picture linked to a Bernese mountain dog in it as well
https://rennlist.com/forums/panamera...a-divider.html
01-09-2020, 09:05 PM
#35
01-09-2020, 10:09 PM
#36
Burning Brakes
And here's some interesting text from Road and Track in an online article a couple months ago: "Let's face it: Station wagons aren't very popular in the US. According to J.D. Power, the body style made up just 1.4 percent of all car sales in America last year. That's a tiny amount, and a mere fraction of the 48-percent market share the crossover-SUV segment has. As it turns out, most of that 1.4 percent of the market is one model: The Subaru Outback.
CNBC recently published a report looking at why wagons aren't as popular in America as they are in Europe. Data supplied by J.D. Power showed that the Subaru Outback makes up an overwhelming 85.7 percent of wagon sales in the US. That means every other make and model station wagon sold in the US is fighting for just 0.2 percent of the market. Granted, that's not many cars, but still, it's a bit jarring to see one car dominate an entire segment like this.
A lot of the Outback's dominance has to do with its design. It's more of a crossover-esque vehicle, with more ground clearance and plastic body cladding to give the appearance of SUV-like rough-terrain capability. It appeals to people who might want some SUV features without having to buy an SUV. Other wagons, like the Audi Allroad and Volvo Cross-Country, also do this type of thing. But none have had the same sales success."
Last edited by cometguy; 01-09-2020 at 10:53 PM.
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AlexCeres (01-10-2020)
01-10-2020, 01:06 AM
#37
Simple, wagons were the mini-van of their day and that stigma still clings to them now. Everyone knows that wagons and mini-vans are filled with screaming kids, harassed mothers who are cheating on their husbands with the soccer coach, and the remnants of week old french fries which are starting to smell but that no one had time to clean up because they were too busy leading their dull meaningless lives in their dull tract home in a dull suburb of a boring city. Meanwhile if you buy a tarted up station wagon, say a Jeep Grand Cherokee, that says you may very well have been to Moab last week where you were doing cool things that cool people do because you're driving a Jeep which we all know is, well, cool. Not that most were or ever will but the ads have trained those in the US that a crossover is in, it's cool and adventure could be right around the corner.
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01-10-2020, 09:58 AM
#38
Burning Brakes
MY2018 was the first year for the Sport Turismo wagon. So it hasn't even been sold in the US for two whole years yet.
Not sure exactly what "take rate" means, but I assume that it means that 50% of all Panameras sold in Europe the last year or two are Sport Turismos?
I don't understand why Europeans like wagons and Americans don't...
Not sure exactly what "take rate" means, but I assume that it means that 50% of all Panameras sold in Europe the last year or two are Sport Turismos?
I don't understand why Europeans like wagons and Americans don't...
Simple, wagons were the mini-van of their day and that stigma still clings to them now. Everyone knows that wagons and mini-vans are filled with screaming kids, harassed mothers who are cheating on their husbands with the soccer coach, and the remnants of week old french fries which are starting to smell but that no one had time to clean up because they were too busy leading their dull meaningless lives in their dull tract home in a dull suburb of a boring city. Meanwhile if you buy a tarted up station wagon, say a Jeep Grand Cherokee, that says you may very well have been to Moab last week where you were doing cool things that cool people do because you're driving a Jeep which we all know is, well, cool. Not that most were or ever will but the ads have trained those in the US that a crossover is in, it's cool and adventure could be right around the corner.
I think the other thing at play is the appeal of a higher driving/road position. This is also a self-reinforcing phenomenon. The more higher vehicles there are driving around you, the less comfortable it is to drive from a lower position. It's harder to see through the vehicle in front of you, and passing/being passed can seem intimidating.
I'd seen that data about the Outback accounting for nearly all wagon sales in the US. But yes it's now firmly in crossover territory and no longer just a slightly jacked up Legacy wagon. I parked my ST next to an Outback the other day and it was striking how much taller the Outback was. At a glance about a foot taller. Internet says 10".
01-10-2020, 10:20 AM
#39
Yes it with the back seats down, with the seats up one dog would fit for a short ride but head room would be limited.
The net is the Porsche Cargo Net, your dealer can order it or you can get it from Suncoast Parts. The car has two points for connection, one behind the front seats, look above the rear doors and you will see a fitting that the Net's frame sits in. The other connection point is behind the rear seats. The net also has straps that connect to the D rings on the floor. The Cargo net has wings that swing out to be the full width of the car behind the front seats and then swing in to fit between the rear wheels. As you would expect it is very well designed.
The net is the Porsche Cargo Net, your dealer can order it or you can get it from Suncoast Parts. The car has two points for connection, one behind the front seats, look above the rear doors and you will see a fitting that the Net's frame sits in. The other connection point is behind the rear seats. The net also has straps that connect to the D rings on the floor. The Cargo net has wings that swing out to be the full width of the car behind the front seats and then swing in to fit between the rear wheels. As you would expect it is very well designed.
01-10-2020, 11:24 AM
#40
Burning Brakes
BTW two other thoughts about the SUV appeal here in the US: not only are our gas prices (much) cheaper than in much of Europe, there's also the perception (reality?) that they are safer in a crash than smaller/lower cars.
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GoBlue! (01-10-2020)
01-10-2020, 11:55 AM
#41
Cargo Management Kit Available
If anyone is interested I have a complete unused cargo management kit available for the sport turismo. I sold the car and forgot I had it in my garage I believe it was a $590 option when new - I'm happy to let it go for way less than that if anyone is interested. Send me a PM - SCOTT
01-10-2020, 12:35 PM
#42
Instructor
I am wondering how many ST e-hybrids are in the USA? Talk about unicorns. My dealer is one of the highest volume dealers and they have sold exactly one hybrid ST... mine.
And I believe that the ST hybrid is only available on order, though I did find two new 2019 dealer cars and two new 2020 dealer cars via On-line search over the past year or so. (Perhaps they were EPA/Carb cert vehicles?).
01-10-2020, 03:05 PM
#43
Burning Brakes
My dealership in the Boston area had ordered a 2018 ST E-Hybrid, and I got to see it a week or two before my special-order one arrived. They are indeed rare. I think I've seen two or three ST E-Hybrids at dealerships, but none on the road (though I have seen a couple of new-gen Panamera sedan E-Hybrids on the road). I've seen only two or three other non-PHEV STs on roads in the Boston area in the last couple of years, as well (but a fair number at dealerships).
01-10-2020, 03:12 PM
#44
Panamera represents a big slice of the Porsche car sales world wide. If the Panamera is tackled at all, it'll be in terms of offerings, it'll be to focus it towards a specific slice of the traditional (if you can call it traditional) sales target. discontinuing this model-line in the USA is unlikely.
