When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
It seems to me that Porsche has been walking back their plans for moving to EV somewhat; it's not in the timeline it's in how they now append things like "but we'll have to see how it goes" or "that could change" to those timelines. I meant to add in above that sales of the Panamera are actually improving both in the US and world wide with the latter number being 38,443 finding homes world wide and just over 8000 sales in the US. Both numbers represent substantial improvement and don't sound like the kind of numbers you use to discontinue sales of the Panamera in the US. Certainly you're not going to stop making it altogether and 8000 in the US would seemingly justify the expense of bringing it over, that's not far off the 9400 moved in the EU. I cant find the logic in it, I keep coming back to not true or I'm missing something.
edit... Glad to hear it amelen, you got in there while I was typing.
i don’t think they are walking back their EV plans. I think they were always more hedged than some people have inferred from the taycan launch marketing. The interviews Blume gave last year and the current 911 plans all discuss a period of mixed models and hybrids. No all in on EV for the foreseeable future. The hybrid panamera fills a nice spot for folks who don’t want or can’t leverage a taycan.
i find the original proposition difficult to believe. A new Panamera “lion” prototype has been seen. It’d be crazy to just randomly not sell it in the states.
No,no,no... you’re not bugging anyone! Just joking around. Happy New Year
Thanks for the note
Happy New Year to all oft you too !
..and please accept all me excuses for my bad English, I know you can easily decrypt that my mother tongue is French !
(Geneva is in the french part of Switzerland.)
GVA-SFO, can you please summarize? That post contained many words.
Is your point: "I am buying a Panamera"?
OK, I edited my text a bit (..to make it longer )
And now, if you read my last words, you will get the answer of your simple question: ..Yes, I will buy another Panamera
(If you want to know the journey of my previous one, ..just read the topic "Good bye 911 (after 30 year non stop), hello Panamera"" in this same forum.
But it is more than 21 pages and 88'000 views !)
...I personally don't understand the huge popularity of the "sedan" version of the new-gen Panamera over the Sport Turismo version; most "magazine" and YouTube reviewers say that the Sport Turismo version looks much better, and I agree with that.
There are many many like me who prefer the non Sport Turismo because it's very distinctively what makes the Panamera the Panamera. It's kinda a sedan but it doesn't look like the other sedans: it's a shape pretty unique to the Panamera. While the Sport Turismo is basically the Audi RS's shape: it's nice but it's nothing new, it's not a very special shape. If it's for the "convenience" aspect of the trunk then I'm pretty sure there are more convenient cars out there. I don't care much about what YouTubers and car magazine writers, who'll never own a Panamera, like or don't like. As soon as the "new thing" is out for these guys the last thing was so lame, ugly, underpowered, etc. Owners do vote and the Panamera's original shape is well appreciated: that's simply why there are so many out there. People who actually buy a Panamera, as opposed to those who get the key of one for a few hours, do prefer the "sedan" over the Sport Turismo: it's as simple as that.
There are many many like me who prefer the non Sport Turismo because it's very distinctively what makes the Panamera the Panamera. It's kinda a sedan but it doesn't look like the other sedans: it's a shape pretty unique to the Panamera. While the Sport Turismo is basically the Audi RS's shape: it's nice but it's nothing new, it's not a very special shape. If it's for the "convenience" aspect of the trunk then I'm pretty sure there are more convenient cars out there. I don't care much about what YouTubers and car magazine writers, who'll never own a Panamera, like or don't like. As soon as the "new thing" is out for these guys the last thing was so lame, ugly, underpowered, etc. Owners do vote and the Panamera's original shape is well appreciated: that's simply why there are so many out there. People who actually buy a Panamera, as opposed to those who get the key of one for a few hours, do prefer the "sedan" over the Sport Turismo: it's as simple as that.
Yes, well the fact that relatively few STs sell in the US nowadays vs. the sedan version certainly backs up what you say: Americans just don't like wagons, for whatever reason. I understand that the ST sells much better in Europe. Curious how that works. I owned a 2015 Panamera 4 prior to my 2018 Panamera 4 ST E-Hybrid, and I agree that most Panamera owners of the pre-2018 version liked the looks; I never understood the journalists constantly putting the looks of the Panamera down, as whenever I saw one on the streets, I thought "man, I'd love to have one of those", and I finally bought one. I do like the new-gen (2018+) style of Panamera better, though.
As far as external appearance, I saw a Taycan Turbo S at a local dealership here this past weekend, and it was absolutely stunning -- the best 4-door sedan I think I have ever seen, both inside and out (it looks far better than the current Panamera sedan); I was floored as to how much better it looks in person, even, than in photos and videos. And I was surprised that the cargo area in the Taycan appears similar to that of the Panamera sedan (with back seats down or up), despite its overall length being 4 inches shorter than the Panamera. After my enjoyable experience with my Panamera E-Hybrid, I think that I have now bought my last ICE-only vehicle; that low-end torque is great, as is driving in and out of my garage without fumes, and cutting weekly visits to gas stations out of my life is priceless. I'm waiting eagerly for the release of the Cross Turismo.
I would have to agree with the fact that the redesign of the Panamera is what led me to finding out that there was even a Sport Turismo version. I did look at the Audi RS5 Sportback and the RS7 because I enjoyed the versatility of the rear hatch and the fact that I would not have to give up lower riding quick car for a SUV or crossover (Cayenne, Macan, or SQ5). I settled on the Sport Turismo because of the fact that I really appreciated being able to load the trunk without having to go over a ledge or "lip". Other than that, the Panamera is beautiful in both iterations but definitely very distinctive in its styling as a sedan.
I think the sales numbers speak for themselves, in the US the ST is the red headed step child; probably the station wagon stigma. Elsewhere it's much more even so it would seem both are appreciated in at least some parts of the world. My own personal view is both are nice, both distinctive. I would not however buy a station wagon, ever, I came of age in the era and that's the uncool car moms drove around doing uncool things in. Cant get it out of my mind, maybe younger folk would compare it to a mini-van.
The Taycan angle: Doesn't compete to me, it's significantly smaller and it lacks the hatch the latter of which is an odd choice to me. This is somewhat subjective as the Panamera appeals to me due to it's ability to get stuff done but also be actual fun to drive. If the size where less important the Taycan might be more attractive to me.
As to whether they are walking back their plans or marketing it's hard to know without information from inside the corporate veil; there is little substance in corporate ad copy or the words of highly placed corporate executives all of which is just the current company spin. Regardless they are walking it back, no question on that.
As to the original topic, since that time there have been spy shots of an updated Panamera which you would think is also coming to the US considering the improving sales here after the tail refresh.
I read recently that Porsche sold something in the area of 800 ST's in the US, total, to date. Total unicorn!
It's by far the best all around car I've ever owned. The styling is superior IMO and the marginal additional size and shape is stealthy in its degree of utility when combined with the lower load height.
Wow! That would make it more rare than the average Ferrari. I saw a black ST E-hybrid in Lagos, street parking, it stuck out like a sore thumb due to it's size. There was something like a foot of it sticking out further into the road than all the various little hatchbacks in front and in back of it. Cant imagine driving a car of Panamera size around in that area although I know some of our more skillful (than am I) brothers are doing it.
Wow! That would make it more rare than the average Ferrari. I saw a black ST E-hybrid in Lagos, street parking, it stuck out like a sore thumb due to it's size. There was something like a foot of it sticking out further into the road than all the various little hatchbacks in front and in back of it. Cant imagine driving a car of Panamera size around in that area although I know some of our more skillful (than am I) brothers are doing it.
Heh. Yeah it's a BIG car. But I got used to it very quickly. Never been to Lagos, but have definitely traveled in some European nations filled with narrow roads and even more narrow cars!
I found the link, and it's from just a few weeks ago. The language is a little confusing though. It says: "According to Porsche North America boss Klaus Zellmer, the Panamera Sport Turismo makes up a mere 10% of all Panamera sales in the United States – a mere 800 in total, virtually nothing. By contrast, Zellmer says the take rate in Europe is more than 50%. "
However, total North American Panamera total sales were about 5000 in 2017, 7000 in 2018, and 6500 in 2019. If the take rate is truly 10%, then that would indicate about 1850 sold to date. A few thoughts:
- I *think* the ST was introduced slightly later than the sedan, so perhaps it's 10% of a smaller number.
- The 2017 sales must include some leftover 2016s, again shrinking the denominator.
- Based on what I've observed in the marketplace, an *awful* lot of STs were (are) left still looking for owners.
- What seems to happen every time a manufacturer introduces a wagon in the US is that all the car nerds who really want one buy one - and that number is far lower than the number of forum posters and reviewers who declare them the best thing ever - and then pretty much no one else does.
Given all that, I wouldn't be surprised if that 800 number is more or less correct.
And now, if you read my last words, you will get the answer of your simple question: ..Yes, I will buy another Panamera
(If you want to know the journey of my previous one, ..just read the topic "Good bye 911 (after 30 year non stop), hello Panamera"" in this same forum.
But it is more than 21 pages and 88'000 views !)
Heh. Yeah it's a BIG car. But I got used to it very quickly. Never been to Lagos, but have definitely traveled in some European nations filled with narrow roads and even more narrow cars!
I found the link, and it's from just a few weeks ago. The language is a little confusing though. It says: "According to Porsche North America boss Klaus Zellmer, the Panamera Sport Turismo makes up a mere 10% of all Panamera sales in the United States – a mere 800 in total, virtually nothing. By contrast, Zellmer says the take rate in Europe is more than 50%. "
However, total North American Panamera total sales were about 5000 in 2017, 7000 in 2018, and 6500 in 2019. If the take rate is truly 10%, then that would indicate about 1850 sold to date. A few thoughts:
- I *think* the ST was introduced slightly later than the sedan, so perhaps it's 10% of a smaller number.
- The 2017 sales must include some leftover 2016s, again shrinking the denominator.
- Based on what I've observed in the marketplace, an *awful* lot of STs were (are) left still looking for owners.
- What seems to happen every time a manufacturer introduces a wagon in the US is that all the car nerds who really want one buy one - and that number is far lower than the number of forum posters and reviewers who declare them the best thing ever - and then pretty much no one else does.
Given all that, I wouldn't be surprised if that 800 number is more or less correct.
I'm a car nerd and a "really wanted a Panamera Sport Turismo"
I have seen at least three other STs in my neighbourhood, one being an e-Hybrid.
I also must be a nerd, after having a number of SUVs (jeep wagoner, Xterra, Suburban, Q5, and Cayenne GTS) and still owning a Ford Expedition Max that we use to tow a horse trailer, I find the ST the best all around vehicle. I have a Turbo with rear wheel steer so its very quick and relatively nimble. Not many vehicle will transport you in comfort, are quick off the line, handle with excitement and can carry 8 foot lumber from Home Depot or two 85 pound retrievers.
I have had mine for a year now without any problems and plan to keep it for a very long time, not aware of any other vehicles that could replace this. I purchased an extended warranty so I'm covered for 7 years 75,000 miles.
Perhaps a second Generation Taycan ST will be the replacement one day
Dogs behind the cargo net Dogs behind the ST Cargo Net
12-31-2019, 04:17 PM
