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Old 06-26-2019, 09:48 AM
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wyowolf
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Hello everyone. I am looking to get into a used Panamera, probably 14-15 year model. I am used to BMWs, i've had 4. But my 550i M Sport is aging, even though its been flawless for me maint wise, unlike the previous Bimmers, esp the 540i!! I have done all my own maint including, timing chain guide replacements, cooling pipe replacements etc so working on German cars isnt a new thing. Was looking at some M5s, but having to replace Con Rod bearings kinda pushed me away... after that not many other choices for 4 dr cars... I just have a few Qs.. timeframe is probably next summer but I like to research as much as I can first...

1. I am probably looking at a S car... dont really need AWD... are there more probs with AWD cars?

2. Software for diagnosing these cars? You can get software to pretty much do what the dealer does, INPA etc, does that hold true for Porsche as well? I also use the Torque app as well for my Powerstroke.

3. Man tranny seems impossible to find... how are the PDK trannies? This will be a DD for me... I dont have man now, but I do miss having one. The only other Porsche I have driven was a Cayenne, and while nice, I have a powerstroke so I dont need an SUV type vehicle...

4. Engines... how are they reliability wise? I realize we arent talking Toyota reliability here but are there any major probs? I havent really found anything too bad yet... The S85s in the M5s have high con rod bearing failure rates... also I dont see many DIYs on here... is it because you cant DIY some of the difficult stuff?

Thank you in advance for you help...
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Old 06-27-2019, 06:39 AM
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Alex Muhlbach
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I'm also a new future wanna be Panamera owner in the SF Bay Area.

At first I was convinced I wanted a red Tesla model S with black rims white leather, but since in the Bay Area every single person and their moms has a Tesla model S so I wanted something different that would stand out.

I have friends with Porsches that love their cars and am into a sports sedan so really want a Panamera.

My main concern is reliability as this will be my daily driver.

So my questions after doing some research would be:

Do these cars go over 200k+ no problem with tlc and normal maintenance or do I have unrealistic expectations with life time of vehicle?

Since Porsche is second most reliable car I am assuming this thing can get to 250k+ (so I hope)

What should I try to avoid and why?

So stay away from turbo charged and air suspension correct? Since when it goes is very expensive to fix and not worth.

Last most concerning question for me would price and mileage and what would be a better decision. Should I go for a used one around 25-30k with 65-90k miles already or try to find one with 20-30k miles but for 40k+??

After taxes a low mileage one will run over 45k but at least make me feel like I'm getting a new used car whereas the 25k one would run around 30k but already have 90k miles on it which may be half or less than half of life of vehicle.

So is that extra 15k worth it to get 60k miles less??

This is something I'm trying to figure out so I don't regret my decision thanks in advance.
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Old 06-27-2019, 10:18 AM
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Everything about Porsche is expensive when they're new and everything about them is expensive when they're used. If the economics are a concern you may want to carefully consider this purchase. Seriously gents, Porsche is not a common sense purchase and it things go bad out of warranty you may cry.
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Old 06-27-2019, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by krabman View Post
Everything about Porsche is expensive when they're new and everything about them is expensive when they're used. If the economics are a concern you may want to carefully consider this purchase. Seriously gents, Porsche is not a common sense purchase and it things go bad out of warranty you may cry.
Im not as much concerned about parts and such, I have had 4 Bimmers, they werent exactly cheap to run, save for this current 550i. And labor, well that would be me. I've spent my whole life as a mechanic, fuel controls and hydraulics on several different types of aircraft for a major airline.

mostly I want to know the little things that are not so easy to find out without, quite a few of which i have found over the last few days of reading. Im leaning more towards a 997 now as there are a lot of manuals out there. With my teen son getting his own jeep soon, i wont ness need as much room. I will probably be lone driver 90 percent of the time and only carrying 3 once in a while...
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Old 06-27-2019, 12:17 PM
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I own a PPTT and 996 GT3 which I drove both daily (in rotation). I just purchased the PPTT a few months ago and love it. It has all the pan-ash of a sports car combined with a luxurious 4 door while maintaining it's Porsche roots.

My car has low mileage (for the year) and I did purchase an extended warranty. I know some Pam owners are divided on the extended warranty but when I brought my car in for a recent service, my mechanic found the belts cracked, engine mounts and control arms worn. $12K worth of work and ALL covered under the extended warranty.

krabman said it best, - everything about Porsche is expensive. The best things to know are:

- Find a well sorted car, get a PPI done if not from a Porsche dealer
- Budget a few grand on the side for unexpected repairs (it's a car, so things are going to happen unexpectedly)
- Do your research. There are a lot of DIY jobs you can do yourself on this car that can save you $$$ (even if you are not that mechanically inclined)
- Find a good trustworthy mechanic. For all my cars, I have a specific mechanic that only works on said vehicles.

With all these in mind. The Panamera is best sports sedan I've owned thus far (coming from a few M5's) Keeping a regular scheduled maintenance should last you well over 200K miles barring any major mechanical failures.

And yes, Tesla's are the new Honda and Toyota's in the Bay Area
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Old 06-27-2019, 01:09 PM
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and who knows how long those Teslas are going to run. I know for sure one cannot get to some of the road trip destinations without a stop for a charge. Don't see the point in owning a car like that. I could see maybe as a pure commute vehicle - but then I would just get something cheap like a i3 or Volt.
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Old 06-27-2019, 02:04 PM
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I'm cross shopping Pana's and Cayenne's with late model Porsche CPO warranty, and I also currently own an s85 v10 M5 (that I will keep since its a manual).

In the past, I've owned a few 911,964,993,996,997's and then went full BMW for awhile. I'm back.

Now that our family has grown, 4 doors and space are a must, along with performance.

The gen1 Cayenne was always amazing to me, as a service loaner, during my 911 days. I almost didn't want to give them back.

I'm hoping I will be equally impressed with the Panamera !
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Old 06-27-2019, 03:41 PM
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you will be much more impressed. I have had Cayenne service loaners for my Pano and couldn't wait to get my car back!
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Old 06-28-2019, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by sennasixty8 View Post
I'm cross shopping Pana's and Cayenne's with late model Porsche CPO warranty, and I also currently own an s85 v10 M5 (that I will keep since its a manual).

In the past, I've owned a few 911,964,993,996,997's and then went full BMW for awhile. I'm back.

Now that our family has grown, 4 doors and space are a must, along with performance.

The gen1 Cayenne was always amazing to me, as a service loaner, during my 911 days. I almost didn't want to give them back.

I'm hoping I will be equally impressed with the Panamera !
I was looking at the M5s... but the Rod bearings kept me from them, among other things...have you done yours?
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Old 06-28-2019, 08:16 AM
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I personally wouldn't own a Panamera outside of warranty. But if you do go down that route avoid certain options that can increase maintenance costs. If you're good at DIY there are quite a few guides on this forum.

Air suspension is great to have but can cause problems. I've gone through two air compressors in two years. The air bags themselves may need to be replaced and are very costly if going through dealership.

PDCC adds reservoir and hoses. These things can blow and spray hydraulic fluid all over the road.

There's a coolant hose that's glued to the engine that can fail 2010-2012. They put a collar now instead of glue. FYI in case you decide to go for an early year model.

All 970's have suspension noises, creaking. It's really annoying and requires bushings to be replaced. They last less than 30,000 miles.

PDK and engine seems rock solid. In two years I've been a member here I've seen one post on a PDK failure and haven't seen anyone reporting engine trouble.

To be honest the biggest costs are just regular maintenance. Canadian prices: $5000 brake job (Turbo model). $2500 every 2 years for summers, another $2000 every 2 years for winters. $500 oil changes, $1000 interim service, $2500 for full maintenance. This is not a cheap car to own, but nothing compares.
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Old 06-28-2019, 09:25 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by Phil_PPTT View Post
I personally wouldn't own a Panamera outside of warranty. But if you do go down that route avoid certain options that can increase maintenance costs. If you're good at DIY there are quite a few guides on this forum.

Air suspension is great to have but can cause problems. I've gone through two air compressors in two years. The air bags themselves may need to be replaced and are very costly if going through dealership.

PDCC adds reservoir and hoses. These things can blow and spray hydraulic fluid all over the road.

There's a coolant hose that's glued to the engine that can fail 2010-2012. They put a collar now instead of glue. FYI in case you decide to go for an early year model.

All 970's have suspension noises, creaking. It's really annoying and requires bushings to be replaced. They last less than 30,000 miles.

PDK and engine seems rock solid. In two years I've been a member here I've seen one post on a PDK failure and haven't seen anyone reporting engine trouble.

To be honest the biggest costs are just regular maintenance. Canadian prices: $5000 brake job (Turbo model). $2500 every 2 years for summers, another $2000 every 2 years for winters. $500 oil changes, $1000 interim service, $2500 for full maintenance. This is not a cheap car to own, but nothing compares.
Thank you very much. I assume those are indy prices? 500 for oil change seems high for just parts alone. I will be doing all my own work. On another thread I found the name of the scan tool, cant recall it now, but thats whats really needed for diagnostics. The rest is just taking stuff apart and putting it back together... not terribly difficult usually. I've worked on everything from Aircraft engines to diesels to Bimmers... its all the same really. Plus I have ALLDATA at work which will help with most issues.

The things you pointed out that can be problematic is what I was looking for.

Silly Q... on the 996/7 forums I see extensive buyers guides and DIY, but not much on this one. Is that because they are much more difficult to work on? just curious.
Thank you again for the info!
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Old 06-28-2019, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by wyowolf View Post
Thank you very much. I assume those are indy prices? 500 for oil change seems high for just parts alone. I will be doing all my own work. On another thread I found the name of the scan tool, cant recall it now, but thats whats really needed for diagnostics. The rest is just taking stuff apart and putting it back together... not terribly difficult usually. I've worked on everything from Aircraft engines to diesels to Bimmers... its all the same really. Plus I have ALLDATA at work which will help with most issues.

The things you pointed out that can be problematic is what I was looking for.

Silly Q... on the 996/7 forums I see extensive buyers guides and DIY, but not much on this one. Is that because they are much more difficult to work on? just curious.
Thank you again for the info!
I suspect the Panamera draws a different type of buyer than a 911 does, and most don't work on their own cars. Some owners don't even drive them.
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Old 06-28-2019, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by wyowolf View Post
I was looking at the M5s... but the Rod bearings kept me from them, among other things...have you done yours?
Yes, done this past January @ 50k miles, and the OEM bearings that came out looked pretty good! I replaced them with BE bearings and ARP bolts, this engine will live many miles and years ahead.
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Old 06-28-2019, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by skiracer View Post
I suspect the Panamera draws a different type of buyer than a 911 does, and most don't work on their own cars. Some owners don't even drive them.
Lol... well that could be I suppose. I realize they are different cars. But after thinking about it, I dont really need to carry 4 people more than 10% of the time, if that. And the lack of a manual kinda sucks, i miss driving one. But I do love the lines on these cars... I have a few months to sort it out in any case. I just like to get as much info as possible so when i am ready I know exactly what to look for and what to avoid.
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Old 06-28-2019, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by sennasixty8 View Post
Yes, done this past January @ 50k miles, and the OEM bearings that came out looked pretty good! I replaced them with BE bearings and ARP bolts, this engine will live many miles and years ahead.
Ah Ok, I looked into the DIY on it, not overly complicated. That seems to be the only major weak point on those engines, not counting the smaller stuff. I've always wanted an M5...
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