My guess is that commodity cars like these are bought primarily with financing, so a few thousand extra of ADM is only a small additional amount per month so people can suppress the idea that they're getting hosed. When you write a check, like I do, for the whole amount of the car then ADM hits you like a slap in the face.

Also, why aren't more people looking further outside their home areas for cars? - or maybe they are. We picked up a new CRV this past summer. My local dealer 2 miles away wanted a 2.5k ADM and we said FU and bought a new one from a dealer 40 miles away for MSRP. I would have traveled 500 miles or more for a car and driven it back if the math made sense. There are generally honest dealers and generally dishonest dealers, right?

 

My point exactly.

 

Well, the average American is lazy and/or not good with numbers and/or very impulsive and/or a sheeple/gullible What's interesting is that the majority of those that paid an ADM on these generic mass produced cars are probably the least financially able to adsorb material depreciation on the cars that they paid over MSRP for. These generic OEMs and dealers can play all the scarcity shell games that they want but sooner rather than later that house of cards will come crashing down as they need to keep selling cars to keep things going.

 

One adds to the MSRP and includes options that you and potentially future buyers want. The other is stacking $10k in the fire pit and setting it on fire--you dont get to enjoy it and you will never get it back.

Most GT cars sell at or close to MSRP years later never for MSRP + ADM.

 

The annual US sales data for the CRV is interesting...approx 380K units prepandemic in both 2018 and 2019; small dip to 350K cars in 20-21 followed by a big drop to 240K sold in 2022. Looks like about 360K for 2023- not much different than pre-COVID. So what accounts for the markups on the Honda now? Is it pent-up demand due to low production and sales in 2022?

From the way Honda dealers talk about supply chain, etc it sounds like production is depressed...which doesn't appear to be the case based on sold cars. That being said, there is a scarcity of new CRV's on dealer lots-

 

Seriously,

Pathetic !!!

That's to me beyond RIDICULOUS.

Terry

 

So following your logic, paying MSRP instead of $10k under MSRP is throwing $10k in a fire pit and setting it on fire. You did pay $10k under MSRP, right?

 

What? That is not even a good attempt at a strawman but if you are talking about depreciation then that is usually money lost. Being that GT cars dont really depreciate you are usually you get back MSRP so your anology is lost.

Let me break it down for you: $130k MSRP GT4 will sell for about $130k five years later. A $110k MSRP GT4 will sell for about $110 five years later assuming of course the car is pristine and the options or colors aren't weird.

A $130k MSRP car with a $15k ADM will sell for about $130k five years later not $145. If you want to look at it as depreciation, that fine. I'm sure we all own multiple cars that depreciate heavily. However, for me at least, part of the joy of a GT P-car is the fact that you get to drive it almost for free.

 

I was trying to help you by pointing out the flaws in your logic. You got lost on the way. I'll try again.

My friend ordered a new 911 in 2014 and paid 9% off MSRP. Apparently that was a typical discount off of MSRP at that time. Now people are paying MSRP or higher for most P sports cars. I'm hearing $200k over MSRP is at the low end of 911 S/T ADMs. Who here overpaid and who didn't? Why don't current S/T buyers attempt to negotiate down to 9% off MSRP?

People in this thread are using words like "stupid" and "dishonest", like 4-year-olds complaining about how life is unfair. Value is subjective. Something is worth whatever someone will pay for it. Your priorities are not my priorities. If someone really wants something and possessing it is worth more to them than possessing an extra $10k, then from their perspective, they paid a fair price. If you have a $50M net worth, then $200k for an ADM may not mean much - USDs are fungible, 911 S/T's are not. Whereas someone with a $1M net worth would see that same ADM as too high.

Some of the same people laughing at others for paying ADM on a Porsche or Honda pat themselves on the back for negotiating a better sales price on their own car purchase but got absolutely reamed in the F&I office without even knowing it. People still trade their old cars in at dealers even though they can almost always get more money by selling privately. Why?! Because their time and effort are worth more to them than the price difference.

No one is necessarily wrong or right or stupid. People are projecting their values and situation onto everyone and passing sentence but I believe it is more nuanced than that.

 

True story--back in 2018, my daily driver was a 2016 Honda CR-V. I was rear ended by an 18 wheeler which totaled the car. I would have bought another but for the fact that all the Dallas Honda dealers had all the silly "ad ons" like paint sealant, cheap window tint (as opposed to the top tier ceramics that don't fade and are warrantied for life) pin striping, minor pieces of paint protection film where your hand goes opening the doors, etc... that added anywhere from $2000-$5,0000 to the price of the car. HATE that crap. Unlike 2016, I couldn't negotiate those add-ons off the price of the CR-V from any of the Dallas Honda dealers all of whom had plenty of stock on the ground. So I walked. Had a former colleague that retired from Nissan and was able to get family and friend pricing that didn't include all that crap on a 2018 Nissan Rogue and the price was well back of sticker.

Also a true story--when I was shopping for a preowned BGTS this past August, there was a 2021 4.0 at Houston North Porsche dealer and guess what? Oh, our price is before the add on's of minimal PPF and some aftermarket GPS tracker. I literally told the salesman, no thanks and I'm greatly disappointed as I didn't expect a Porsche dealer to do business as if they were a Honda dealer. I bought a CPO 2022 BGTS elsewhere even though the Houston dealer had said, "Well most people want those things but you don't have to get them and we'll take them off the deal for you". Too late. Never forget, we as consumers have choices--if people would just say no, the stupid crap of ADM's, and dealer add-ons that purportedly are included on all used cars, would stop.

BTW didn't pay sticker or any ADM on my preowned 2518 miles CPO 22.

Rant off.

 

In Honda's defense, the new CRV has some pretty cool Orange deviated stitching on the interior. And unlike on a Porsche, it's 0 extra charge on the Honda.

 

Yes and no.

My son (19) bought his first new car a few months ago. It was time, his Miata (first car) was tired and it was due to be replaced, he was driving a lot to work every day. (He just graduated from the Fire Academy, works as a full time FF, makes good money, but needs to reliably get to work.). We did what you suggested at first - shopped for a "slightly used" car. Now, he is a car enthusiast so that hurt him a little (he wouldn't have accepted something like a base Corolla or Civic for example) but what we had found was, even the used stuff out there was priced ridiculously. Anything that had any kind of CPO on it was going for MSRP or almost MSRP (of it's new price, even being 3-4 years old!). Anything that seemed to be discounted enough was generally in really, really rough shape.

In the end, he wound up just going new. When everything we looked at was clearly "well used" and still selling for high-20s (VW GTIs, Civic Si's, WRXs, basically anything sporty-ish).... it was hard to stomach. The car he REALLY wanted was the new Toyota GR86... and when I figured out that the "Premium" was ~$32k MSRP... it was hard to justify $29k for something used. I worked a connection I had, and we traveled 800+ miles to a dealership to get the car he wanted at MSRP. Dealers near home were all charging 5-10k ADMs if they had one on the lot, and they didn't last on lots for more than a day or two. (And since he didn't go to college, I helped him a bit with the downpayment... he wound up financing about half.)

I feel for those who are desperate for a car and don't have a connection.

 

Not sure if I agree...

https://www.mcgrathhondastcharles.co...=60174&tp=new/

 

"Available" can be BS. Went through that when shopping for my son. "Available" can mean "ordered" or "on the truck" or even "pre sold".... it doesn't mean it's there, ready to be purchased.

Unless there are actual dealer photos of the physical car in question? It's not actually there on the lot and "available" like a normal person would think.

 

Did you try to negotiate any of those used car asking prices? I gotta think there would have been dozens and dozens of cars that would have fit the bill. Wouldn't have taken a lot of time to send out some email feelers or make a couple of phone calls. I'm not saying it's as easy to buy these generic cars like it was before COVID but I'm sure a little legwork goes a long way. I'm going to buy my dad a used Toyota for his birthday in the next few months as his Honda is on its last legs so I'm going to working it.