Buckfever

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/por...e-s-1576964894

Very interesting along the lines of our discussion here.

"Steering is very sharp through the electronically assisted setup, point it into a corner and it turns in without a problem, no understeer at all. Body roll is so minimal it’s basically non-existent when in Sport +.

We also tested a Macan with air suspension, this is meant to be the softer of the two setups and we did notice more body roll creeping in, but only when pushing the Macan to its limits on track at Goodwood.

Our Turbo was fitted with the Porsche Torque Vectoring Plus (PTV) system, this gives you superb levels of grip in corners. It works the same way as any other torque vectoring system, in that it brakes the inside rear wheel allowing power to transfer to the outermost wheel (the one that has more grip). You can really push into tight corners at high speed completely trouble free, it makes for some great B road driving!"

rpilot

I'll bet you dollars to donuts that Brett from Sonnen who you posed the same question to in the other thread will say that it has less roll. And believe it or not, neither this author nor he will be wrong. AS is a different beast. You have to have driven a few and understand what they do at an instinctive level. It is hard to explain. You have to drive them with all variables being the same (ie: PTV, wheel size, tire size) back to back with a different vehicle which does not have it for a length to understand how they react under different circumstances. How they handle road undulations.. for instance is the PASM part of the Air suspension as good as the PASM standalone (and they are different systems in the Macan), how it handles road gaps (ie.. on bridges).. does it make that awful thrummp sound on road gaps for instance?... etc. etc. etc.

KeninBlaine

So, given my dealer will have only one demo (S), how do people like me get to compare AS to non-AS considering all the variables? At some point, we will need to depend on the opinion(s) of experienced capable driver(s) who has no axe to grind and can comment in a manner that we can all apply to our specific needs and wants. Reading all the different impressions of drivers writing articles, without knowing if they know what they are talking about, is frustrating.

Buckfever

Honestly even though I don't figure on ordering till October that's why I've started now. Fortunately we have quite a few dealers in the area and should be able to at least feel steel springs, and AS. But that may be it in a Macan. What I'm hearing is that there is very little interest in the rest of the performance options. And you know it'll be 20s with the air and 19s on the steel.

I think that's the big one to parse. The steel spring feel versus the AS in the firmest setting. And then just figure it the best you can and don't sweat it. We've done our homework, we have a posse of solid forum contributors that will say it as they see it. It'll be just fine. Enjoy the journey.

Buckfever

Although there is one thing I would say having spent a little time on the BMW forums researching for my wife's BMW purchases over the years. There is tremendous momentum to group think. I always come back to, make sure it's you that's driving the build.

rpilot

You can wait a while.. Try another dealer to see if they have one with the options you are considering. This is normal for the rollout of a new vehicle.
A simple solution is to not obssess and drive what they have. If you like the road feel, handling, isolation , etc. of the suspension they do have available for the test drive, don't worry about the other kind... just get it. If you do not like whichever suspension they have to drive, then you have to figure out what you want to do. Talk to the SA if they have driven the AS in the Macan. Ask pointed questions. If a SA bases his opinion on a cayenne AS (I dont like this one BTW) or Panamera AS (love this one).. run, dont walk. Regardless of the test drives, I do expect the AS takeup to be relatively low on the Macan in the US.

Buckfever

This is exactly what I'm hearing. The air suspension feels softer but has less roll in the firmest settings. The steel alone feels firmer gives more feedback but has more roll.

So we're looking at AS versus Steel +PASM. And it's going to come down to enjoyment. Does the feel of the steel outweigh the lower COG marginal decrease in roll with the AS. And the improved esthetics of the smaller wheel gap.

I'm leaning AS. Still up in the air on PTV+ as I'm probably never going to push it, but kind of leaning towards that too, thinking mud and snow. Even though I'm waiting on the diesel, my inclination is to build it as I would if I was getting the turbo or S. I'd like to experience those performance features should I ever not be commuting 25k+ a year.

Next couple of weeks should gain a good bit of first hand knowledge.

Buckfever

Another British guy "mark-yorkshire" collected his with standard steel and 20s and thought it was soft. Very insightful comments IMO:

"Look forward to trying a Macan with PASM as my Macan with standard suspension is a little bit too comfortable. Have got used to hard suspension in my now departed 981 Boxster and 987.2 Cayman. Seems strange saying that standard suspension on 20"wheels is too comfortable ! People used to order Boxsters and Caymans with PASM to get better suspension comfort on big wheels and now I think the opposite is true ie PASM might be required to get a stiffer ride."

More I'm reading seems that indeed the suspension tuning is more CUV orientated and the PASM is a must have on this heavier/higher COG vehicle.

The suspension decision is getting easier. I'm working on arranging test drives, I just need to try steel and AS and take it from there.

I was already decided on the 20s, a goodly amount predicated on looks, now I'm thinking they're necessary to the ride experience I'm looking for.

rpilot

I have made this simple for myself. I like the 19 Turbo wheels and I know that they are quieter on the highway (road/tire noise) and more fuel efficient. Besides if I don't get the AS, I think the wheel well gap is balanced better by having more rubber on the tires rather than slim profile tires which IMO, just look unbalanced with a wider wheel gap. If I like the AS (and that is a big IF), I will probably go with the 20 classic wheels as long as they are not too noisy. I have convinced myself that if I do get the Macan, it will be in addition to my 991 instead of replacing it, so I have the sports car need covered in a manner of speaking. PASM and PTV are a given for me. I know what they do and why I want them.

I will probably leave out the sports chrono because I do not care much for that dash wart and the ticking clock which will drive me nuts. I don't miss sports chrono in my 991 and I won't miss it in the Macan. A compass rose with the time and elevation are probably more useful to me than burning more gas in sports plus mode , if I decide that the dash wart does not look so bad. I am also still deciding between the S & the turbo, but seeing Rileys new macan, I think I am leaning towards the S now for a couple of reasons.. 1) the US spec Turbo has the sport design side skirts that I do not like (I have a personal distaste for side skirts that spread outwards instead of tuck in), the european spec ones are the standard sideskirts, painted or not, depending on the country. 2) Rileys comments on torque steer with his turbo lead me to believe that the turbo has really more power than I need and S is probably all I need. But until I drive them both, I will hold off on deciding between the S and turbo.

And finally, the other option bothering most Macan buyers here... the sideblades.. yes, they will be painted in my case. I'd really like to think I am buying a Macan instead of a gen1 Toyota RAV4.

I was myself waiting for this kind of individual feedback before I commit myself to getting one and go see the dealer about test drives. This may seem a little out there to some, but I generally put very little faith in test drives by journalists who are on a paid junket to drive these cars and depend on the manufacturers for access to these cars for their livelihood. Besides, they all repeat the same things. You can read one review and you will have read them all !!

Here is the build I think I will end up with, unless I add 20s and AS...

http://www.porsche-code.com/PFL9YYP6

Buckfever

Did look at the wheel gap proportions with the 19s, again from Sebis:





I'll get more pics on Thursday.

I'm hoping in Sport Mode the AS is firm enough and doesn't feel floaty, I really like the look in low with the 20s. I really didn't like the AS in the Cayenne though.

No doubt not having a 991 at home has moved me towards more of a sporty build. The vision is dictated by the gaps we try to fill.

rpilot

^^^^^^^^ I do not find the wheel gap in the above pic objectionable in any way. It balances the overall height of the SUV. Am I correct in assuming that DOES NOT have the AS? A little lower as with the AS and I think it would look just fine too, perhaps a little better but not enough for me to warrant making the AS decision on the wheel gap and stance.

Every time I have seen a pic of the 20s without the AS however, I have found the gap a bit big.. so I am working with the theory that the vertical spokes and the more sidewall height of the tires, balances the look. Meanwhile the 20s are also wider and are situated closer to the edge of the wheel well (protrude more), so that also affects the perception of the wheel well gap.

But it may all be moot when I see it in person

rpilot

Try to ensure the spring suspension car you have to test also has PASM so you can test the firmness in each mode and then compare it to the AS in each mode. If you get a macan without the PASM to go into sports and sports plus suspension settings, it will feel squishy if you are used to sports cars.

Buckfever

Yes steel springs only.

sebis

Indeed, no AS in that picture. Here is a picture of 20", don't know if it has AS or not but looks great!

Buckfever

Good eye, both steel springs no performance options: