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Old 01-13-2023 | 01:44 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by #1SomeGuy
The 2020 S had the older 3.0l engine, not the newer 2.9l like the current 2023 S and GTS (and the 2020-2021 GTS). The 3.0l was very slow to spool compared to the 2.9l.

Also, the reason for getting rid of the Turbo is the next gen Macan will be an EV and they will probably release the Turbo first and there will be overlap for a year or two of the old ICE Macan and the new EV Macan.
Not me. I've had 3 Macans and will get another but not if/when it goes EV.
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Old 01-13-2023 | 08:41 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Noah Fect
I found the exact opposite. The 2.9 in the 95B.2 GTS simply did not want to get up and go, compared to the 3.0 in the S. And yes, I compared both in Sport mode.

That said, the 3.0 doesn't have much get-up-and-go either until you put it in Sport+ mode, which (fortunately) also smooths out its rough idle. It's a fine engine for what it is, but I do hope they improved the 2.9L's response in the 95B.3 generation.
I never drove a 95B.2 GTS, but I had a 95B.2 S and interestingly enough found the "pedal issue" to be annoying at times at initial takeoff in normal or sport mode (I don't think I ever put it in Sport+, like literally ever).

The 95B.3 GTS I have now I'm happy to report is much, much better. I think there's still room for improvement especially in normal mode but it isn't nearly as distracting as it used to be. Plus, another issue with the S that I had was that the PDK tuning was pretty terrible in Sport mode. It never knew when to shift and I had to shift manually far more frequently than any other auto/dual-clutch car I've ever driven... THAT was my biggest complaint about that car, even more than the pedal issue. I'm also happy to report that issue has very much been resolved in the new GTS. It is truly a night and day difference over my "old" 2021 S.

Which brings me back to the original question in this thread, and it's a common one- where are the advantages of the GTS over the S? Porsche doesn't really do a great job of spelling that out, but I think the reason is mostly due to most of the true differences coming down to software and suspension tuning. What on paper is described as "10mm lower suspension" translates to what you could call "the GTS treatment"; it isn't just for looks, Porsche has converted the end result into making the GTS model a truly fine sports sedan in SUV form- and a lot of it might not even be realized until you get it out on some "fun" roads. Putting around in traffic or on the highway might not be enough to be able to discern how great these cars really drive.

Where I'm still going to come up short in my comparison is just how much the 95B.3 S models stack up to the 95B.2 GTS. It is the same engine, but I don't think the overall experience will be the same. You may have to drive one on said fun roads to come to your own conclusion. Or conversely, if you never took your Macan on fun roads then why bother with the added expense? For a "daily driver/commuter" use case, you may be very well better off with an S, or even an Audi. Not that the GTS can't fill that role too but it is definitely overkill.
Old 01-13-2023 | 11:05 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Noah Fect
I found the exact opposite. The 2.9 in the 95B.2 GTS simply did not want to get up and go, compared to the 3.0 in the S. And yes, I compared both in Sport mode.

That said, the 3.0 doesn't have much get-up-and-go either until you put it in Sport+ mode, which (fortunately) also smooths out its rough idle. It's a fine engine for what it is, but I do hope they improved the 2.9L's response in the 95B.3 generation.
Well you're categorically wrong about which engine is more responsive. The 2.9l is the more lively engine. That's not to say something about the conditions and exact spec of the day made one feel better to you, but to all those arguing the 3.0l was better, it wasn't, in literally any way.
Old 01-13-2023 | 03:29 PM
  #19  
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Agreed that my observation makes no sense. During the test drive I went back to the dealer and swapped cars again, just to make sure I wasn't imagining things.

Same day, same test course, same conditions. Dunno what else to tell you. My point is, do not take anyone's word that the 2.9L engine is "better." Drive both and make sure you agree before writing the big check.
Old 01-13-2023 | 03:34 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by manifold danger
Plus, another issue with the S that I had was that the PDK tuning was pretty terrible in Sport mode. It never knew when to shift and I had to shift manually far more frequently than any other auto/dual-clutch car I've ever driven... THAT was my biggest complaint about that car, even more than the pedal issue. I'm also happy to report that issue has very much been resolved in the new GTS. It is truly a night and day difference over my "old" 2021 S.
That part can't be overemphasized. It's pathetic how much better the PDK tuning is in the base model versus the S. Whoever tuned the powertrain in the 95B.2 S really did not GAF what they were doing.

And no, you can't write that off to emissions or regulatory reasons. One of the ways it fails is by holding first gear for a ridiculously long time in some instances, which certainly doesn't improve economy or emissions, while short-shifting in others. It's not just badly tuned, it's inconsistent. Sport+ helps with the latter problem but not always with the former.

Last edited by Noah Fect; 01-13-2023 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 01-13-2023 | 11:00 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Noah Fect
Agreed that my observation makes no sense. During the test drive I went back to the dealer and swapped cars again, just to make sure I wasn't imagining things.

Same day, same test course, same conditions. Dunno what else to tell you. My point is, do not take anyone's word that the 2.9L engine is "better." Drive both and make sure you agree before writing the big check.
But not same spec...or necessarily same fuel...or same "learned" state in the ECU...or a dozen other factors you wouldn't have had control over.

Either way, I own a 2021 GTS now and test drove a 2020 GTS for a good while and have spent several hours behind two different 2020/21 S's (borrowed one for a night before I bought my GTS, had one as a loaner on service and I live an hour from the dealership so had a good long round trip). There is no doubt in my mind, the GTS powertrain is superior.

Beyond my personal experience though, all of the measurements prove it as well. I can't accept that the 3.0l is better in any way, because it's not.
Old 01-14-2023 | 02:10 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by manifold danger
Porsche has converted the end result into making the GTS model a truly fine sports sedan in SUV form- and a lot of it might not even be realized until you get it out on some "fun" roads. Putting around in traffic or on the highway might not be enough to be able to discern how great these cars really drive.
You may have to drive one on said fun roads to come to your own conclusion. Or conversely, if you never took your Macan on fun roads then why bother with the added expense? For a "daily driver/commuter" use case, you may be very well better off with an S, or even an Audi. Not that the GTS can't fill that role too but it is definitely overkill.
Years ago, BMW use to describe their cars as sport sedans. Well, I believe Porsche could honestly call the '22+ model Macan GTS a sport sedan/SUV. This GTS can run with most any sports car on public roads. There are significant performance differences between each of the base, S and GTS models although some of them cannot be fully realized until you exercise the vehicle on a challenging road, preferably in the company of some 911's. So, buy the Macan model that best represents your level of performance tolerance.

Last edited by DBH; 01-14-2023 at 02:11 PM.
Old 01-15-2023 | 11:38 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by #1SomeGuy
The pedal commander doesn't do squat in terms of how fast the car actually is, just how much you need to push your foot down. Just drive in sport if you want more throttle response with less pedal movement or use your foot.
Lots has been written on this but it seems to be a common misconception about the Pedal Commander - that if you just push your foot down farther on the accelerator you'll get the same response as w/out a Pedal Commander. But, those of us who have it installed know that's not true. Agreed that Pedal Commander doesn't make the car any faster overall, but it definitely lets it get up to whatever speed you want to go sooner than w/out it. When you press down on the accelerator, Pedal Commander opens the throttle body faster than the standard Porsche throttle does, feeding air and fuel to the engine at a higher rate. Do a timed run from a standing start up to say 40 mph, with and without the Pedal Commander and depending on what setting you use, you'll find you get to 40mph faster with the Pedal Commander turned on. Pedal Commander's effects are less noticible in Sport+ mode because Porsche has already remapped throttle response rates, but even then the Pedal Commander does make a difference. By contrast, set the Pedal Commander for Ecco mode and the car will barely get out of it's own way because the throttle body response is highly retarded. The car will ultimately go the same speed but it will take much longer to get up there.
Old 01-16-2023 | 08:22 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by mvmojo
Lots has been written on this but it seems to be a common misconception about the Pedal Commander - that if you just push your foot down farther on the accelerator you'll get the same response as w/out a Pedal Commander. But, those of us who have it installed know that's not true. Agreed that Pedal Commander doesn't make the car any faster overall, but it definitely lets it get up to whatever speed you want to go sooner than w/out it. When you press down on the accelerator, Pedal Commander opens the throttle body faster than the standard Porsche throttle does, feeding air and fuel to the engine at a higher rate. Do a timed run from a standing start up to say 40 mph, with and without the Pedal Commander and depending on what setting you use, you'll find you get to 40mph faster with the Pedal Commander turned on. Pedal Commander's effects are less noticible in Sport+ mode because Porsche has already remapped throttle response rates, but even then the Pedal Commander does make a difference. By contrast, set the Pedal Commander for Ecco mode and the car will barely get out of it's own way because the throttle body response is highly retarded. The car will ultimately go the same speed but it will take much longer to get up there.
The throttle mapping on the Macan should be an embarrassment to Porsche. I nearly had an accident the day I drove it home when I needed to accelerate quickly and the car sat for what seemed like seconds. I understand they have to meet regulations, but between this and the programming of the PDK on normal mode, it's completely uninspiring out of the box.

However, PC and sport/sport+ on any GTS or Turbo and they are beastly. Agree with @DBH, my Macan reminds me of my old E39 M5 and consider it a performance sedan that can off road more so than an SUV. A true Swiss knife.
Old 01-16-2023 | 08:39 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by mvmojo
Lots has been written on this but it seems to be a common misconception about the Pedal Commander - that if you just push your foot down farther on the accelerator you'll get the same response as w/out a Pedal Commander. But, those of us who have it installed know that's not true. Agreed that Pedal Commander doesn't make the car any faster overall, but it definitely lets it get up to whatever speed you want to go sooner than w/out it. When you press down on the accelerator, Pedal Commander opens the throttle body faster than the standard Porsche throttle does, feeding air and fuel to the engine at a higher rate. Do a timed run from a standing start up to say 40 mph, with and without the Pedal Commander and depending on what setting you use, you'll find you get to 40mph faster with the Pedal Commander turned on. Pedal Commander's effects are less noticible in Sport+ mode because Porsche has already remapped throttle response rates, but even then the Pedal Commander does make a difference. By contrast, set the Pedal Commander for Ecco mode and the car will barely get out of it's own way because the throttle body response is highly retarded. The car will ultimately go the same speed but it will take much longer to get up there.
You realize this doesn't have a throttle cable right? It's all drive by wire and the ECU is telling the actual butterfly valve in the throttle body how much to open. In the end, floored is floored.
Old 01-16-2023 | 10:15 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Jim Wilke
Not me. I've had 3 Macans and will get another but not if/when it goes EV.
I'm seriously considering getting a '23 just so that I can get one before they go EV. I would welcome a hybrid, but I occasionally need to tow a motorcycle long distances and don't want to deal with charging on those trips.



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