Sunday report card, the good, the bad...
05-01-2007, 12:48 AM
#16
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Originally Posted by Greg Fishman
Besides the "theoretical lap times" Ghetto managed to "actually" oil down the whole track.
Here is the thread.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1252683
Here is someone's comments on the whole deal while he was working the track
Posts 23-25. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1252683
Guy had an oil fitting (or similar) come loose in T1, almost spins on the oil, proceeds to the turn 3/4 complex where I was shooting, I tell the corner worker Lin's Subaru is spewing oil, so the flagger waves madly at Frank to stop the car and pull off the track. GR ignores and continues to complete the lap. Shut down the track for 40min as Warren and co. apply buckets of oil dry.
Listening to the flagger curse Frank for either playing dumb or just being clueless (notice the cloud of white smoke following you?...) was hilarious. I wasn't the least bit surprised by Frank. The event ran until almost 6pm because of this.
They even had the ***** to walk out to turn 1 to see what they dropped while Warren was trying to mop up the track. Can't blame the guy for an unexpected oil-down problem; completing the lap and ignoring a flagger trying to get him to pull off a quarter of the way around the track is f00king unbelievable.
Here is the thread.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1252683
Here is someone's comments on the whole deal while he was working the track
Posts 23-25. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1252683
Guy had an oil fitting (or similar) come loose in T1, almost spins on the oil, proceeds to the turn 3/4 complex where I was shooting, I tell the corner worker Lin's Subaru is spewing oil, so the flagger waves madly at Frank to stop the car and pull off the track. GR ignores and continues to complete the lap. Shut down the track for 40min as Warren and co. apply buckets of oil dry.
Listening to the flagger curse Frank for either playing dumb or just being clueless (notice the cloud of white smoke following you?...) was hilarious. I wasn't the least bit surprised by Frank. The event ran until almost 6pm because of this.
They even had the ***** to walk out to turn 1 to see what they dropped while Warren was trying to mop up the track. Can't blame the guy for an unexpected oil-down problem; completing the lap and ignoring a flagger trying to get him to pull off a quarter of the way around the track is f00king unbelievable.
Good find Greg.
I'd say your $10,000 bet is looking more and more like a sure thing.
Knowing how this guy weasels, I think you better find an escrow agent. I'm 95% sure the money is yours. I'm 99% sure this guy won't pay.
To that point, how about if we find a bank which will hold the 10,000 for each of you.
Any accrued interest goes to each party. You and Frank pick 3 mutually agreed upon Rennlisters to dtermine who gets the $20,000 sum at the end of the five years. My suggestion is John D, Bob R (our race board moderator) and whoever is moderating the G-R forum.
Greg and Frank? Acceptable?
Last edited by Mike in Chi; 05-01-2007 at 10:03 AM.
05-01-2007, 10:06 AM
#19
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Originally Posted by Greg Fishman
Mike,
Escrow is a great idea and I am more than willing to do that IF GhettoOiler does the same.
Escrow is a great idea and I am more than willing to do that IF GhettoOiler does the same.
You issued the challenge. Time to put your money where your mouth is.
You have nothing to lose in the interim, as it would be in an interest bearing account. (Since you're into oil these days, I'm guessing Greg would accept $10,000 of Exxon Mobil shares at today's prices)
05-01-2007, 10:49 AM
#20
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Mike in Chi
I'm sure Bonni, Sunday, VR, Bull, Larry, JR, TD, Martini Mike, Bryan and others would be glad to serve as unbiased judges.
Betcherass.
05-01-2007, 11:13 AM
#21
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source: http://www.ghettoracer.com/events/redline-ta-0407/
Written by Frank M. Lin, May 1st 2007
last revised 5/1/2007 6:16 am (in progress)
About the oil down, driver's perspective
First I should explain the format for this time attack because it does have a little relevance. It is 1 warm up lap, 3 hot laps, and 1 cool down lap. Cars and sent out in 10 second intervals so you are suppose to go at a pretty solid pace during warm up to maintain proper spacing. None of your lap times from practice sessions matter, just the lap times from the two time attack sessions which mans you have 6 laps total to get it done. After the first time attack session, we were in second place with a 2:05.x lap. From the final practice session, we were able to find more speed (clearly indicated by the segment times from the data log) despite never able to put a clear lap due to heavy traffic. The theoretical lap time for us was 2:00.64 and that's based on the 91 octane low boost map setting of 20 psi. As of the final practice session, the fastest lap time posted by any one in our class was 2:03.x. Even if I can't string a perfect lap to get a 2:00.x lap I should have no problem getting a 2:01.x or 2:02.x. There is also the extra 30 whp or so from the high boost map @ 22 psi. We were quite excited because of the potential for 1st place class finish. I study the data log carefully to see what corners I can still pick up more speed... indeed there was more left. I was confident the car should be able to pull a sub 2 minute lap time as I guesstimated the night before.
Crunch time comes, the second time attack session begins and I'm the first car out for our mini group. I complete the warm up lap. Henry had turn the boost setting to high but the car didn't feel too much faster... in the back of my mind I was talking to the car... come on baby lets do this it's just 3 laps and we're home free. As I make the final turn into the front straight, full throttle, here we go... I see the green flag from start/finish station. Just as I cross the start/finish line the car doesn't seem to pull as hard, I watch the speedometer and we seem about 5 mph off if not more. I also notice some oil got on the windshield and and lot of smoke in the rear view mirror. My mind was racing, ****, should I push it or not... **** it, go big or go home. I glanced down at the gauges, everything seems fine. Henry's car had minimal instrumentation (no oil temp, no oil pressure, basically just stock gauge cluster + boost gauges only). I gas again and I still got boost, check rear view mirror again, it seems to smoke a lot less. Maybe the problem will go away... hmm, maybe it's the catch tank getting full and that was it. Going into "button hook" aka the slowest the corner of the track, I saw the corner worker giving me a black flag. Ahh ****, I have to go in. Okay, I wonder if there was a car behind me. I look over the gauges, and everything seems fine. I still got boost... hmm, I wonder what is wrong. I decided to drive briskly so whoever is behind me will not catch up to me. At cotton corner I get another black flag and I acknowledge. Going through the bus stop I seem to recall the corner worker was waving the black flag and I made sure he saw my hand signal. I look over the gauges and rear view mirror, no change. Then I forgot the exact spot when I started to move offline... I think it was at/after the lost hills flag station.
Some people were critical and said I should've known better and stop earlier... maybe so. But I had no idea. The power was down, but the car still had boost and there was no indication of error otherwise. From the corner workers I received black flags, which simply means to come in. I did not receive a meatball flag, nor did I receive a red flag telling me to stop... so there you have it, from driver's seat.
We did add further delay to the event... however at that time the event was already behind by at least 1 hour due to other incidents/accidents. It gives us no pleasure to cause any sort of problem for any one and our sincere apology to fellow participants of the event.
Damages to Henry's WRX
Under the hood there was oil everywhere, the oil hose to the catch can was blown off... and appears to be the source of all the oil. At this point we speculate failed piston ring or ring land, which highly pressurized the crank case and cause all the oil to be blown out. More details after we remove the motor and tear it down for more clues. To my surprised Henry's car does not have an oil cooler... so the oil might've been extremely thin from excessive temperature. Excessive oil temp = lot of bad things could've happened internally...
Written by Frank M. Lin, May 1st 2007
last revised 5/1/2007 6:16 am (in progress)
About the oil down, driver's perspective
First I should explain the format for this time attack because it does have a little relevance. It is 1 warm up lap, 3 hot laps, and 1 cool down lap. Cars and sent out in 10 second intervals so you are suppose to go at a pretty solid pace during warm up to maintain proper spacing. None of your lap times from practice sessions matter, just the lap times from the two time attack sessions which mans you have 6 laps total to get it done. After the first time attack session, we were in second place with a 2:05.x lap. From the final practice session, we were able to find more speed (clearly indicated by the segment times from the data log) despite never able to put a clear lap due to heavy traffic. The theoretical lap time for us was 2:00.64 and that's based on the 91 octane low boost map setting of 20 psi. As of the final practice session, the fastest lap time posted by any one in our class was 2:03.x. Even if I can't string a perfect lap to get a 2:00.x lap I should have no problem getting a 2:01.x or 2:02.x. There is also the extra 30 whp or so from the high boost map @ 22 psi. We were quite excited because of the potential for 1st place class finish. I study the data log carefully to see what corners I can still pick up more speed... indeed there was more left. I was confident the car should be able to pull a sub 2 minute lap time as I guesstimated the night before.
Crunch time comes, the second time attack session begins and I'm the first car out for our mini group. I complete the warm up lap. Henry had turn the boost setting to high but the car didn't feel too much faster... in the back of my mind I was talking to the car... come on baby lets do this it's just 3 laps and we're home free. As I make the final turn into the front straight, full throttle, here we go... I see the green flag from start/finish station. Just as I cross the start/finish line the car doesn't seem to pull as hard, I watch the speedometer and we seem about 5 mph off if not more. I also notice some oil got on the windshield and and lot of smoke in the rear view mirror. My mind was racing, ****, should I push it or not... **** it, go big or go home. I glanced down at the gauges, everything seems fine. Henry's car had minimal instrumentation (no oil temp, no oil pressure, basically just stock gauge cluster + boost gauges only). I gas again and I still got boost, check rear view mirror again, it seems to smoke a lot less. Maybe the problem will go away... hmm, maybe it's the catch tank getting full and that was it. Going into "button hook" aka the slowest the corner of the track, I saw the corner worker giving me a black flag. Ahh ****, I have to go in. Okay, I wonder if there was a car behind me. I look over the gauges, and everything seems fine. I still got boost... hmm, I wonder what is wrong. I decided to drive briskly so whoever is behind me will not catch up to me. At cotton corner I get another black flag and I acknowledge. Going through the bus stop I seem to recall the corner worker was waving the black flag and I made sure he saw my hand signal. I look over the gauges and rear view mirror, no change. Then I forgot the exact spot when I started to move offline... I think it was at/after the lost hills flag station.
Some people were critical and said I should've known better and stop earlier... maybe so. But I had no idea. The power was down, but the car still had boost and there was no indication of error otherwise. From the corner workers I received black flags, which simply means to come in. I did not receive a meatball flag, nor did I receive a red flag telling me to stop... so there you have it, from driver's seat.
We did add further delay to the event... however at that time the event was already behind by at least 1 hour due to other incidents/accidents. It gives us no pleasure to cause any sort of problem for any one and our sincere apology to fellow participants of the event.
Damages to Henry's WRX
Under the hood there was oil everywhere, the oil hose to the catch can was blown off... and appears to be the source of all the oil. At this point we speculate failed piston ring or ring land, which highly pressurized the crank case and cause all the oil to be blown out. More details after we remove the motor and tear it down for more clues. To my surprised Henry's car does not have an oil cooler... so the oil might've been extremely thin from excessive temperature. Excessive oil temp = lot of bad things could've happened internally...
05-01-2007, 11:23 AM
#22
unbelievable . . .
Ghetto, this is why people heap so much criticism upon you.
It is not that people criticize you for making a mistake in the first place, but rather for how you react to that mistake.
You see oil on your windshield and you decide to go big anyway??????
And now that you see the result of what you did all you can say is "some people were critical" rather than "I am so sorry that I am a n00b bonehead who is self-centered and inexperienced"
Wow.
I know people who have accidentally oiled tracks down, and they arguably should have caught it sooner, but they then were extraordinarily apologetic afterwards so everyone forgave them. Take a clue for this. . .
Ghetto, this is why people heap so much criticism upon you.
It is not that people criticize you for making a mistake in the first place, but rather for how you react to that mistake.
You see oil on your windshield and you decide to go big anyway??????
And now that you see the result of what you did all you can say is "some people were critical" rather than "I am so sorry that I am a n00b bonehead who is self-centered and inexperienced"
Wow.
I know people who have accidentally oiled tracks down, and they arguably should have caught it sooner, but they then were extraordinarily apologetic afterwards so everyone forgave them. Take a clue for this. . .
05-01-2007, 11:35 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by GhettoRacer
source: http://www.ghettoracer.com/events/redline-ta-0407/
Written by Frank M. Lin, May 1st 2007
last revised 5/1/2007 6:16 am (in progress)
About the oil down, driver's perspective
First I should explain the format for this time attack because it does have a little relevance. It is 1 warm up lap, 3 hot laps, and 1 cool down lap. Cars and sent out in 10 second intervals so you are suppose to go at a pretty solid pace during warm up to maintain proper spacing. None of your lap times from practice sessions matter, just the lap times from the two time attack sessions which mans you have 6 laps total to get it done. After the first time attack session, we were in second place with a 2:05.x lap. From the final practice session, we were able to find more speed (clearly indicated by the segment times from the data log) despite never able to put a clear lap due to heavy traffic. The theoretical lap time for us was 2:00.64 and that's based on the 91 octane low boost map setting of 20 psi. As of the final practice session, the fastest lap time posted by any one in our class was 2:03.x. Even if I can't string a perfect lap to get a 2:00.x lap I should have no problem getting a 2:01.x or 2:02.x. There is also the extra 30 whp or so from the high boost map @ 22 psi. We were quite excited because of the potential for 1st place class finish. I study the data log carefully to see what corners I can still pick up more speed... indeed there was more left. I was confident the car should be able to pull a sub 2 minute lap time as I guesstimated the night before.
Crunch time comes, the second time attack session begins and I'm the first car out for our mini group. I complete the warm up lap. Henry had turn the boost setting to high but the car didn't feel too much faster... in the back of my mind I was talking to the car... come on baby lets do this it's just 3 laps and we're home free. As I make the final turn into the front straight, full throttle, here we go... I see the green flag from start/finish station. Just as I cross the start/finish line the car doesn't seem to pull as hard, I watch the speedometer and we seem about 5 mph off if not more. I also notice some oil got on the windshield and and lot of smoke in the rear view mirror. My mind was racing, ****, should I push it or not... **** it, go big or go home. I glanced down at the gauges, everything seems fine. Henry's car had minimal instrumentation (no oil temp, no oil pressure, basically just stock gauge cluster + boost gauges only). I gas again and I still got boost, check rear view mirror again, it seems to smoke a lot less. Maybe the problem will go away... hmm, maybe it's the catch tank getting full and that was it. Going into "button hook" aka the slowest the corner of the track, I saw the corner worker giving me a black flag. Ahh ****, I have to go in. Okay, I wonder if there was a car behind me. I look over the gauges, and everything seems fine. I still got boost... hmm, I wonder what is wrong. I decided to drive briskly so whoever is behind me will not catch up to me. At cotton corner I get another black flag and I acknowledge. Going through the bus stop I seem to recall the corner worker was waving the black flag and I made sure he saw my hand signal. I look over the gauges and rear view mirror, no change. Then I forgot the exact spot when I started to move offline... I think it was at/after the lost hills flag station.
Some people were critical and said I should've known better and stop earlier... maybe so. But I had no idea. The power was down, but the car still had boost and there was no indication of error otherwise. From the corner workers I received black flags, which simply means to come in. I did not receive a meatball flag, nor did I receive a red flag telling me to stop... so there you have it, from driver's seat.
We did add further delay to the event... however at that time the event was already behind by at least 1 hour due to other incidents/accidents. It gives us no pleasure to cause any sort of problem for any one and our sincere apology to fellow participants of the event.
Damages to Henry's WRX
Under the hood there was oil everywhere, the oil hose to the catch can was blown off... and appears to be the source of all the oil. At this point we speculate failed piston ring or ring land, which highly pressurized the crank case and cause all the oil to be blown out. More details after we remove the motor and tear it down for more clues. To my surprised Henry's car does not have an oil cooler... so the oil might've been extremely thin from excessive temperature. Excessive oil temp = lot of bad things could've happened internally...
Written by Frank M. Lin, May 1st 2007
last revised 5/1/2007 6:16 am (in progress)
About the oil down, driver's perspective
First I should explain the format for this time attack because it does have a little relevance. It is 1 warm up lap, 3 hot laps, and 1 cool down lap. Cars and sent out in 10 second intervals so you are suppose to go at a pretty solid pace during warm up to maintain proper spacing. None of your lap times from practice sessions matter, just the lap times from the two time attack sessions which mans you have 6 laps total to get it done. After the first time attack session, we were in second place with a 2:05.x lap. From the final practice session, we were able to find more speed (clearly indicated by the segment times from the data log) despite never able to put a clear lap due to heavy traffic. The theoretical lap time for us was 2:00.64 and that's based on the 91 octane low boost map setting of 20 psi. As of the final practice session, the fastest lap time posted by any one in our class was 2:03.x. Even if I can't string a perfect lap to get a 2:00.x lap I should have no problem getting a 2:01.x or 2:02.x. There is also the extra 30 whp or so from the high boost map @ 22 psi. We were quite excited because of the potential for 1st place class finish. I study the data log carefully to see what corners I can still pick up more speed... indeed there was more left. I was confident the car should be able to pull a sub 2 minute lap time as I guesstimated the night before.
Crunch time comes, the second time attack session begins and I'm the first car out for our mini group. I complete the warm up lap. Henry had turn the boost setting to high but the car didn't feel too much faster... in the back of my mind I was talking to the car... come on baby lets do this it's just 3 laps and we're home free. As I make the final turn into the front straight, full throttle, here we go... I see the green flag from start/finish station. Just as I cross the start/finish line the car doesn't seem to pull as hard, I watch the speedometer and we seem about 5 mph off if not more. I also notice some oil got on the windshield and and lot of smoke in the rear view mirror. My mind was racing, ****, should I push it or not... **** it, go big or go home. I glanced down at the gauges, everything seems fine. Henry's car had minimal instrumentation (no oil temp, no oil pressure, basically just stock gauge cluster + boost gauges only). I gas again and I still got boost, check rear view mirror again, it seems to smoke a lot less. Maybe the problem will go away... hmm, maybe it's the catch tank getting full and that was it. Going into "button hook" aka the slowest the corner of the track, I saw the corner worker giving me a black flag. Ahh ****, I have to go in. Okay, I wonder if there was a car behind me. I look over the gauges, and everything seems fine. I still got boost... hmm, I wonder what is wrong. I decided to drive briskly so whoever is behind me will not catch up to me. At cotton corner I get another black flag and I acknowledge. Going through the bus stop I seem to recall the corner worker was waving the black flag and I made sure he saw my hand signal. I look over the gauges and rear view mirror, no change. Then I forgot the exact spot when I started to move offline... I think it was at/after the lost hills flag station.
Some people were critical and said I should've known better and stop earlier... maybe so. But I had no idea. The power was down, but the car still had boost and there was no indication of error otherwise. From the corner workers I received black flags, which simply means to come in. I did not receive a meatball flag, nor did I receive a red flag telling me to stop... so there you have it, from driver's seat.
We did add further delay to the event... however at that time the event was already behind by at least 1 hour due to other incidents/accidents. It gives us no pleasure to cause any sort of problem for any one and our sincere apology to fellow participants of the event.
Damages to Henry's WRX
Under the hood there was oil everywhere, the oil hose to the catch can was blown off... and appears to be the source of all the oil. At this point we speculate failed piston ring or ring land, which highly pressurized the crank case and cause all the oil to be blown out. More details after we remove the motor and tear it down for more clues. To my surprised Henry's car does not have an oil cooler... so the oil might've been extremely thin from excessive temperature. Excessive oil temp = lot of bad things could've happened internally...
Frank, as to your $10,000 challenge to Greg...
Will you escrow the money now?
You have the big mouth. Is it connected to a spine?
05-01-2007, 11:49 AM
#24
Moderator and 993 whisperer
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I can't believe he checked the rear view mirror again, 'hoping the problem would go away' because he saw 'less smoke'. Dude, maybe you saw less smoke because you lost all of your oil! If I got a black flag, I would immediately wonder what I had done wrong. If I was certain I had not made any violations, I would assume something was wrong with the car. Not all tracks have a mechanical (meatball) flag. If you'd listened at the drivers meeting, I bet they said that the black flag would serve as a meatball flag that day. I've been to tracks that don't have a debris flag . . . instead, they wave a yellow flag. You just gotta listen to the driver meeting leader. And anytime you see smoke from anywhere on your car, or see anything spewing on your windshield . . . without a second thought, for God's sake, go back paddock! No, don't pit, go to the paddock!
I certainly hope that you have learned from this experience, and please do not repeat it! You could have gotten someone killed!
I certainly hope that you have learned from this experience, and please do not repeat it! You could have gotten someone killed!
05-01-2007, 12:00 PM
#25
NASA Racer
Rennlist Member
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Let me think - I see oil on my windshield, my car is smoking, I'm down on power and I'm getting a black flag at every corner - I wonder what could be wrong. Oh well, I better push it.
This might be the most stupid thing from Frank yet.
This might be the most stupid thing from Frank yet.
05-01-2007, 12:01 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
Incredible. Start reading this on post 26 or so: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...1252683&page=2
Frank, if you are EVER on the same track as I am, I will have you removed, forcibly if necessary.
You are a certified menace.
Frank, if you are EVER on the same track as I am, I will have you removed, forcibly if necessary.
You are a certified menace.
05-01-2007, 12:27 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by TD in DC
. . . and it was someone else's car . . .
05-01-2007, 12:27 PM
#29
A Banned 'Haiku Victim'
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Either you guys are mis reading or I was not very clear. As soon as I saw the first black flag I gave up. And there was just 1 corner from start finish to the first corner worker station... clearly some of you have problem focusing on the issue and not the person.
05-01-2007, 12:29 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by GhettoRacer
Either you guys are mis reading or I was not very clear. As soon as I saw the first black flag I gave up. And there was just 1 corner from start finish to the first corner worker station... clearly some of you have problem focusing on the issue and not the person.
YOU SHOULD HAVE GIVEN UP WHEN YOU SAW SMOKE & OIL, YOU ****ING RETARD.
DON'T YOU DARE LECTURE US ON AN INABILITY TO FOCUS ON THE ISSUE, YOU ORANGE-HAIRED TAMPON.
someone reply to this, so Frankie can see it