Help deciding on 997 GT3 vs GT4 -- Owned a few previous 997s !!!
06-28-2017, 09:19 PM
#16
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Thread Starter
Socialpro, as to availability of GT4s right now, it's nothing to do with desireability or people not liking it as much as they thought or anything like that. It's just that time in the life-cycle when the short-term people get rid of their cars. I just bought an off-lease car this month. The owner ordered another Porsche (I can't remember what) and went ahead and traded his 4 in. So you have all the people who never keep one more than a couple years starting to get rid of them over the next year.
Whereas with 997GT3, the current owners are either original owners or 2nd owners who bought from the same group that is just now selling their GT4s. But these folks are in for the long haul, and there's no outside factors causing a mass sell-off like there is for GT4 (i.e., lease is up, short attention span, new shiny about to come out, didn't like it as much as they expected, price has stayed high but may come down shortly when 981 GT4 is no longer the newest GT4, etc.) Pretty much none of these reasons apply to 997GT3 (i.e. I doubt there's a single leased 997GT3 in the United States), so what you see on the market is just the normal attrition of people moving out of an older sportscar.
Whereas with 997GT3, the current owners are either original owners or 2nd owners who bought from the same group that is just now selling their GT4s. But these folks are in for the long haul, and there's no outside factors causing a mass sell-off like there is for GT4 (i.e., lease is up, short attention span, new shiny about to come out, didn't like it as much as they expected, price has stayed high but may come down shortly when 981 GT4 is no longer the newest GT4, etc.) Pretty much none of these reasons apply to 997GT3 (i.e. I doubt there's a single leased 997GT3 in the United States), so what you see on the market is just the normal attrition of people moving out of an older sportscar.
Is there any insight to the actual production of 997 GT3s vs the GT4? I dont believe either one has been 'limited' in any way? But I might be wrong...
Again I am less concerned for actual 'appreciation / depreciation / production' of the vehicle as I am to find the one I actually like best within the 100-120k price range. Although it does sting a bit that 997.2's are selling at or very close to MSRP even for well used ones (track + mileage)
...man what I would give to go back a few years and purchase the 'correct' cars...
06-28-2017, 09:36 PM
#17
Drifting
^^ Ain't it the truth! Here's my list of "seriously shopped for, found "the car", drove it, decided against it for some arcane (read: dumbass) reason:
1) 97' 993 C2S in 2000. Reason: Price hadn't come down enough for my taste. I think 2000 or 2001 was about the low point in value for those cars.
2) 1973 2.7 Carrera RS M472 Touring in 2002. Ask was $60,000. The seller had paid $40k two years earlier and put 20k into a light refresh, so it wasn't like he was gouging me. But 50% more than he'd paid two years earlier? C'mon, do I look like a sucker?
This is a solid $240k car now.
3) '98 993 C2S for the same price I paid for my 2015 GTS. I knew what the smart money would do, but to be fair to me, I was looking for a DD and the GTS was a whole lot better for that.
4) 1972 911T survivor in good-to-very-good condition, 80,000 miles in 1998 for $10,000. It was slooooooow with that 130hp mill, but I had no idea (this was the first years of the internet for me) that Freeman Thomas and company were starting up R-Gruppe and about to send long-hood 911s through the roof. I was driving a well-built Miata at the time that would run absolute circles around that T and I wasn't about to slow down in an old 911.
1) 97' 993 C2S in 2000. Reason: Price hadn't come down enough for my taste. I think 2000 or 2001 was about the low point in value for those cars.
2) 1973 2.7 Carrera RS M472 Touring in 2002. Ask was $60,000. The seller had paid $40k two years earlier and put 20k into a light refresh, so it wasn't like he was gouging me. But 50% more than he'd paid two years earlier? C'mon, do I look like a sucker?
This is a solid $240k car now.3) '98 993 C2S for the same price I paid for my 2015 GTS. I knew what the smart money would do, but to be fair to me, I was looking for a DD and the GTS was a whole lot better for that.
4) 1972 911T survivor in good-to-very-good condition, 80,000 miles in 1998 for $10,000. It was slooooooow with that 130hp mill, but I had no idea (this was the first years of the internet for me) that Freeman Thomas and company were starting up R-Gruppe and about to send long-hood 911s through the roof. I was driving a well-built Miata at the time that would run absolute circles around that T and I wasn't about to slow down in an old 911.
06-28-2017, 09:39 PM
#18
Drifting
07-02-2017, 08:17 PM
#19
997.2 GT3 production is roughly in 600s for NA as oppose to close to 2000 NA GT4s. But it's not about that. I think GT4 market is slightly different and let's just say the car will hold value. Nothing really beats an S&P500 index fund in a long run because it does not need insurance and oil changes...
... but you can't take an S&P500 index fund around a corner will a slight yaw angle at all 4 wheels can you?
... but you can't take an S&P500 index fund around a corner will a slight yaw angle at all 4 wheels can you?
07-02-2017, 10:02 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
997.2 GT3 production is roughly in 600s for NA as oppose to close to 2000 NA GT4s. But it's not about that. I think GT4 market is slightly different and let's just say the car will hold value. Nothing really beats an S&P500 index fund in a long run because it does not need insurance and oil changes...
... but you can't take an S&P500 index fund around a corner will a slight yaw angle at all 4 wheels can you?
... but you can't take an S&P500 index fund around a corner will a slight yaw angle at all 4 wheels can you?
07-02-2017, 11:08 PM
#21
Everyone has to own a 997 GT3 at least once (RS even better). Truly a special car. Not the fastest, not the easiest to live with, not that many girls are going to ask for rides, but precious few modern cars have as much character.
07-02-2017, 11:22 PM
#22
^I agree with Shake. I started with a GT3 & now have a GT4. The GT3 is more thrilling, but super raw & no luxiries. The GT4 is a lot easier for me to drive on track. Drive both & decide if you want the feel of being in a race car, or a modern car with a better drivable cabin experience. The GT3 not a great DD. I can see myself possibly back in a 997 (preferably RS) down the road. Good luck.
07-02-2017, 11:41 PM
#23
Agree completely with NoGaBiker. Similar thing happened with 997's when they were current.
If you're a 911 snob, 997 is probably the best all-around iteration but the mid-engine setup basically makes the GT4 feel like a more sorted GT3. It's also tough to go back once you've enjoyed the modern dash layout.. elevated shifter console is really enjoyable! If you can't live without the Mezger, go GT3. Otherwise GT4. It's drivetrain won't feel as special but that is also what makes it more useable. That's pretty much where the tradeoff lies.
If you're a 911 snob, 997 is probably the best all-around iteration but the mid-engine setup basically makes the GT4 feel like a more sorted GT3. It's also tough to go back once you've enjoyed the modern dash layout.. elevated shifter console is really enjoyable! If you can't live without the Mezger, go GT3. Otherwise GT4. It's drivetrain won't feel as special but that is also what makes it more useable. That's pretty much where the tradeoff lies.
07-03-2017, 05:15 AM
#24
Go 997 GT3. End of a Era.
There is a new 991.2 GT3 manual but its completely different feel than 997 gt3.
GT4 probably the new car is better with same feel.
There is a new 991.2 GT3 manual but its completely different feel than 997 gt3.
GT4 probably the new car is better with same feel.
07-03-2017, 04:55 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
1 - Newer car, warranty etc
2 - 'New' to me platform. Had several 997s so that interior / exterior is getting a bit long in the tooth for me
3 - Excited to try mid-engine platform (first for me as well)
4 - Love the fit and finish on the GT4 with the full leather
5 - I only like the 'black' GT3s, but its not overly exciting to me. Think the Agate GT4 looks spectacular on that car
6 - More availability / easier to find what I want
7 - Love the carbon buckets available on these
I'm sure once I had my fill of the GT4 I will most likely go back to the 997s -- or vice versa. The 'hunt' usually ends up being the best part...all goes downhill from there
07-03-2017, 05:46 PM
#26
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2) 1973 2.7 Carrera RS M472 Touring in 2002. Ask was $60,000. The seller had paid $40k two years earlier and put 20k into a light refresh, so it wasn't like he was gouging me. But 50% more than he'd paid two years earlier? C'mon, do I look like a sucker? This is a solid $240k car now.
This is a solid $240k car now.https://www.hagertyagent.com/apps/va...Carrera_RS_2.7
07-03-2017, 07:24 PM
#27
I just drove a 997.2 GT3 yesterday at Scottsdale Bentley (where I bought my GT4) and the car felt so different from my 4. The steering is more sharp/direct, the clutch feels totally different, and the gearbox is much tighter. The GT3 is definitely a car that's going to give you a lot more feedback and take a lot more attention to drive. Coming home in my GT4 after that test drive I felt like I was driving a comfy cruising car.
07-03-2017, 10:57 PM
#28
Drifting
Not to make you feel worse, but I think your number is way out of date:
https://www.hagertyagent.com/apps/va...Carrera_RS_2.7
https://www.hagertyagent.com/apps/va...Carrera_RS_2.7
), but not $400k behind. The big sale numbers are the Lightweight homologation cars, the M471s, that are trading in the sixes and sevens, and sometimes over $1MM.
http://www.conceptcarz.com/valuation...S-Carrera.aspx
07-04-2017, 01:38 AM
#29
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Thread Starter
I just drove a 997.2 GT3 yesterday at Scottsdale Bentley (where I bought my GT4) and the car felt so different from my 4. The steering is more sharp/direct, the clutch feels totally different, and the gearbox is much tighter. The GT3 is definitely a car that's going to give you a lot more feedback and take a lot more attention to drive. Coming home in my GT4 after that test drive I felt like I was driving a comfy cruising car.
07-04-2017, 08:52 AM
#30
After a 997 GT3 the gt4 feels a little bit mushy.
And lacking character feel from steering, engine and gearbox. Like all newer cars after 996/997 GT3.
And lacking character feel from steering, engine and gearbox. Like all newer cars after 996/997 GT3.