ljmartyre

I know this thread is a couple years old and the wing vs no wing debate will never end...BUT...

Has anyone else done this? I wouldn't mind seeing more and hearing some first hand experiences.
Always been a fan of the GT3 Touring and this seems right up my alley.

burnergt4

I got in touch with Jared, the fabricator mentioned in post #21 above and bought a pair of the blanking plates he made and installed them:






I definitely think the looks don’t suffer sans wing, and if anything it plays up the ducktail even more. I ended up putting the wing back on after a couple months, though; there were a few times where I could feel the back end go light even at normal highway speeds, and I didn’t really feel like futzing with the aero.

Basically to pull this off properly, you’d want to also tamp down some of the front end aero, and the only way you’re gonna do that is to swap out the front splitter to something that makes less downforce. The only real turnkey way to achieve that would be to bolt on a Boxster Spyder splitter, however I tried that and it just doesn’t fit—tabs and fitment are completely different between the two, and while you can install a GT4 splitter on a Spyder, it doesn’t work the other way around.

So at that point you’d be looking at getting a full front bumper for a Spyder, painting it, and installing it…all so you can have a front end with less downforce. The knock-on effect of all this was just turning into too much of a project for me, so I just reverted back to the wing. I really enjoy the touring look, but the squirreliness at speed and the work it would take to truly do things properly was just too much for me to overcome.

ChrisFL

What about installing a Spyder rear spolier? I wish RSS still make their CF extension on the rear spoiler. Maybe someone can fabricate one to a wider and slight more aggressive angle.

burnergt4

I considered it, but the Spyder uses a different bracket and has numerous electrical components that would need installing (motor, wiring harness, etc), and I didn't want to spend the better part of $2500 only to figure out that it wouldn't work.

You and me both—when I discovered that product I thought it was the answer to my problems, but it's out of stock everywhere; I had to have called 5 or 6 shops that had it listed on their online stores, but no dice. If I were able to find one I likely would've kept the wing off.

ljmartyre

Thanks for chiming in!
I got a little bit of info from some posts you made on Reddit.
I actually contacted him a few days ago and purchased a set of the plates just to mess around with it.

I guess if anyone happens across an RSS extension that could be the move.
Is this the one?

https://www.evasivemotorsports.com/s...hoCmdYQAvD_BwE

burnergt4

Yep, that's it, however it's been sold out everywhere for at least a year. I just now recalled that I'd given RSS a ring this time last year to ask about it; they said they were looking into new carbon suppliers with an eye towards making up another batch, but I haven't seen anything since that would indicate a new one is coming out.

ChrisFL

Maybe DesignsbyJacob can answer this for us, but what if you added their rear diffuser for more downforce. Would this be able to make up for the wing? They have computer models to run simulations. Maybe worth a shot to give them a call.

burnergt4

I'd looked at the Verus rear diffuser (before DBJ came out with theirs) and reached out about getting an idea of their CFD numbers, but was told a) the only tests they've ever done are with the rear wing on and couldn't speak to any other applications (they're assuming you're looking for optimal drag / downforce on the track, so I understand why this is the case), and b) they don't release CFD data (which, again, I get as it's their data that they've worked towards gathering & presumably is part and parcel of their secret sauce).

If @DesignsbyJacob had any data or testing they'd be willing to lend to this application I'd be super interested, but would also understand if they weren't comfortable providing information towards an application that's kind of outside the design envelope of a car that was meant to have a rear wing from the get-go.

DesignsbyJacob

Because the stock GT4 wing doesn't produce much downforce (~40lbs @80mph, 1deg AoA), using a diffuser like ours will help rebalance the car quite a bit. The performance of the DBJ rear diffuser (any diffuser) is actually very hard to quantify because the results change quite a bit based on the ride height and rake of the car. Each setting would require a new CFD to be run and hardly reflects reality since this varies from car to car and changes dynamically during your drive. There are certain settings that will increase the performance to match the rear wing, but there are also scenarios where it only produces 1/2 the downforce of the wing. For example, when the ride height is too low, the car may gain downforce in the front but we lose a lot of air going under the car. This air is required to make the diffuser generate downforce but going too low actually stops its function and reduces performance. During our CFD tests we saw a range anywhere from 10-40lbs of downforce generated @ 80mph.

I suspect that if you add a diffuser and close off the front channel diffuser plates, the car would remain aerodynamically balanced in most cases(obviously granted you aren't driving slammed). The car also comes with a lot of understeer from factory to begin with so you would notice without a wing, the car to be more neutral to oversteer only at higher speeds (80mph +). Anything below 60mph would pretty much remain the same. That said I suppose it is the most scariest to experience oversteer at speeds over 100mph even if that isn't a speed at which most people drive at or experience on a day to day

ljmartyre

Well...thats some damn good info and I appreciate you taking the time to chime in.

Right before checking back in on this thread I was looking at the 911R diffuser and was wondering what the application of something like that would do.
Considering the price of the piece is more than reasonable- but again not designed for this car.

So the long and short of it is- wingless youre likely fine just around town. But any sort of higher speed (80 or so +) driving you risk running into instability.

I have the wing deletes in for paint currently. So I'm going to at least see what it feels like around town. I wouldn't have planned any track days without the wing regardless.

ChrisFL

Thanks so much for chiming in. Great explanation of the aero benefits. I know most of your design goes into more downforce and faster lap times, but I'm more into a "Touring" mode and getting a dedicated track car for the track. I think it may be worth a try to 1) close front air scoops (default from factory) 2) proper alignment and ride height 3) rear diffuser and a gurney flap to the lip spoiler.

matttheboatman

Is the hatch without the wing, the same fitment as the base Cayman, S, & GTS?

I think it is. Which leads me to the idea of a wingless GT4 would be a simple as trading deck lids.

I have a Guards Red deck lid, who wants to trade? I'll build a crate and pay for shipping both ways.

Hoop71

I've had my wing on/off for the last year or so. I like it for around town and I've taken the wing off so many times now it's pretty easy.

I have the RSS extension ( I looked all over with no luck then found one in the UK). Really ties the rear together as the ducktail gets lost in the all white.

Overall very happy and I put the wing on for any track day shenanigans.

DesignsbyJacob

The regular cayman trunks are identical except for the extra supports and holes the GT4 trunks have to accept a wing. Many cayman S/GTS owners look to trade actually. Getting the trunk to accept the GT4 wing is usually costly since these trunks are not easily obtainable. ~1600$ without the rear glass and other accessories plus long lead times. That's actually why we spent the time to develop an adapter kit for those trunks so you can cut the holes, and use our reinforcement plate to accept a GT4 wing.

One thing youll have to consider is a weaker trunk strut, since without the weight of the wing, the trunk will pop open easier when unlatched!

okie981

Off-topic but that is a super cool paint job on the side of that building in that first photo. Nice job by whoever.