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Would be good to identify a list of headers available for the GT4 and relative merits of each.
I am aware of:
- Fabspeed
- FVD
- Cargraphic
- Dundon (WIP they have not released a product yet)
Anyone installed any of the above and has feedback?
Are there any other options?
I can comment on the Cargraphics with cats. Construction and finish is A+......the design of the long tubes with the minimum number of sections and smooth curves maximizing space available, no step on the engine flange and having the cats as far back as possible was some of the reasons I decided on these.
The race version has the added benefit of the slip-fit collector which I thing is a must and takes some stress out of the system.
I'll try to get you the graphs and more info. He is one of your dealers down here in Puerto Rico with the shop owner car. Gasoline is 93 octane pump gas. Dyno is a Mustang. I will probably end up doing the AP but just want to see the gains with just exhaust mods now before I later add the IPD plenum and the TB. Could you provide here a bit more info on Stage II?
Gotcha! Mitch was just there a few weeks ago to help support Predator Performance for a large 1/2 mile event, definitely would have been a good chance to check out this GT4. As for Stage 2 details, here is the dyno chart comparing stock tune + headers with our Stage 2 93 OTS map from here in Austin:
The peak gains get a little lost there as the lines cross but they're right around 6400 RPM and 7whp. Max gains are right during the midrange dip in the 4500-5000RPM range and those are roughly 15-20whp. Unfortunately, we don't have a baseline of this particular car bone stock without the headers so we'll never have a true apple to apples comparison but once the other two cars are baselined, we'll at least have some solid bone stock to Stage 1 GT4 data to compare from the same dyno to give everyone an idea of what the headers are providing/what the tune is providing.
Originally Posted by Jimmy-D
Jared,
I have my GT4 arriving in 3 weeks. Probably be ready for the tune mid-June. Do you know when you all will have Stage 2 finalized and commercialized?
Stage 2 GT4 maps are actually done and ready to go. I can provide them as needed for now but we're still waiting on locating a base 2.7l car with headers to test on to push all the maps to a release firmware update. We're actually meeting today to discuss pushing out the release firmware as is without the Stage 2 base car maps but we generally try to avoid doing that if at all possible. On the flip side, we know everyone else is chomping at the bit for the Stage 2 OTS maps so we don't want to continue to make everyone wait while we search for a test car. I'll keep you posted on the outcome but more than likely by the time your car arrives, the Stage 2 maps will be in full release firmware.
Originally Posted by Dr. G
The great thing about Cobb is the ability to do a protune dialed in to maximize gains with your particular mods. I would think you would get better results over an off the shelf stage 2 tune. From what I understand it can be done just by analyzing the data stored in the ECU log after your mods are done. I'm sure Jared will correct me if I'm wrong on that.
This is correct. One of the best features of the Accessport and our ProTuner network is giving the end user the opportunity to install whatever parts they want and not have to worry about if their tune is going to be compatible. By having your car ProTuned, the map is custom tailored to your car and your mods and you have the opportunity to discuss with your tuner the level of aggressiveness you prefer. Our OTS maps are designed to be conservative and not be the absolute maximum the car can provide because they need to be able to run on every car well, which means leaving a larger margin for safety/inherent engine differences than may be needed in most circumstances. To cover the second part of your statement yes- E-Tuning is the ability to tune the car remotely via logs you send your ProTuner. The ProTuner analyzes your logs, makes revisions to a map, emails you the map, you flash the map to the car, drive the car, log the car, and email your tuner the new log. Rinse and Repeat until your tune is complete. Though still not as precise as an on dyno tune, we have some really competent Porsche ProTuners who also E-Tune so they can dial those maps in to being nearly identical to an onsite tune.
Originally Posted by Bardman
Remember the 1-2HP is peak gains. There can be more significant gains elsewhere in the curve which you would definitely feel even if the peak gains are only 1-2HP.
Very true! Strangely, even the peak gains we've seen on other cars (and many of our other ProTuners) have been significantly more than 1-2 whp which is well within the dyno margin of error between runs. Definitely curious to get some more info regarding this particular case. This may surprise some people, and I'm sure there are some people who won't believe it, but we really don't like releasing or selling a product that doesn't make power. It's not fun for us, it's not fun for you, and no one likes spending money on something that doesn't actually do...anything. We try our best to be as transparent as possible with the types of gains you should expect with all of our products and welcome everyone to dyno, race, etc to back up those claims.
I just did the Cobb Stage 1 tune on my Spyder and can definitely feel a difference. It's more noticeable when going from the tune back to stock. It doesn't feel like only 1-2 hp of gains.
Now the big question is whether the Spyder is truly 370hp vs the 385hp of the GT4 in stock form. If so, I would expect to feel more of a difference than a Stage 1 GT4 being that the end points are the same. I still question whether there really is a difference in stock power production between the two cars, though.
I was thinking about the GT450 package from Fabspeed but I really like the way the stock exhaust sounds. Is anyone considering headers, plenum, throttle body and tune while retaining the stock exhaust?
Ask and you shall receive. Here are two clips of the Race Headers/Factory PSE/IPD Plenum/82MM TB/COBB/Protune sent to me today from my client Josh in Texas...followed by his father in the 918 Spyder
Would be interested to hear from any one who has put on an after market exhaust. As I wait for my GT4 delivery I have already pulled the trigger on Sport headers w/cats. I will wait to decide on an aftermarket exhaust but those who have installed one would like to hear which one you chose and why and your review and would you do it again.
Also - those who are still considering what choices are you considering?? Some one mentioned Capristo but do not know much about them. There seems to be many options out there. I like very much the fit and finish of Akrapovic but think pricing way hard to justify- would like to hear more sound clips because have not heard any that has convincingly swayed me.
Or maybe the simple answer is no after market exhaust and just stick with stock???
Would be interested to hear from any one who has put on an after market exhaust. As I wait for my GT4 delivery I have already pulled the trigger on Sport headers w/cats. I will wait to decide on an aftermarket exhaust but those who have installed one would like to hear which one you chose and why and your review and would you do it again.
Also - those who are still considering what choices are you considering?? Some one mentioned Capristo but do not know much about them. There seems to be many options out there. I like very much the fit and finish of Akrapovic but think pricing way hard to justify- would like to hear more sound clips because have not heard any that has convincingly swayed me.
Or maybe the simple answer is no after market exhaust and just stick with stock???
Just like to hear for others'
I have the Cargraphics Cup Race Exhaust with mufflers. My reasoning on this one was the reputation of the manufacturers (already had their Sport headers) so knew fit and finish would be A+ and that I could save some $$$ by using a regular exhaust without any flaps/valves....anyway I always had the PSE ON all the time. Added benefits are that it does save a considerable amount of weight and since it's a single path exhaust you get the most HP out compared to a dual-mode exhausts systems.
Impressions after the install? When we first started the car and took a drive I was a bit disappointed on the sound but it has progressively gotten better with miles and now I can say I'm very, very happy. You need to break-in the mufflers so tone and volume gets better. The sound is deeper that the OEM and with sport headers I can say it's 15-20% louder. Above the 5K rpms it's just glorious....awesome....!!!! Can't imagine the sound with Race headers but them probably it would be too loud for the street/daily use. If you drop the revs below 2K and put the foot down you do get a bit of drone for maybe 500 rpms....nothing major and at very low revs.
The fit is great...everything bolts right into place and this system does provide a myriad of fitting options so you will have to play with every section and angle. The 90 degree curves into the exhaust tips can be rotated down so maybe, maybe....this could be an option for tracks with noise restrictions if you have Sport headers or stock manifolds.
As for HP/torque improvements I couldn't get my car dyno when stock, then headers and the headers+exhaust....sorry but we don't have that many reputable dynos/tuners down here. Recently took it to a dyno but comparing numbers from different cars, in different places with different type of dynos is pointless and I prefer not to create a debate here. I can say it did provide a boost in power in the mid range that's very noticeable (dyno numbers and butt dyno)...top end? It does have extra power but not that much. Looking to test a COBB in order to see how much more we can extract.
Kudos to John at BGB for setting me up with this combo and the direct drop-shipment from Cargraphics......also he was always there during the install when we had a few questions so the support for the product is also there and on par with the product.
^ Good info./input. I think that if stock is not enough volume you most likely are one that always keeps PSE on any way. I know on my 991 GT3 that was the first button I hit after start-up and never turned it off until parked the car. If I want more volume than OEM I think I will also go valveless. You do save considerable money
Couple questions:
- When you go valveless obviously your PSE button is now functionless but what did you do with the hoses ect underneath. Did you plug them and then wrap them and store them underneath??
-Do you lose any lower-end torque?? On the GT3 this was debatable because some how is supposedly plays a role on lower-end torque
- How bad is the drone? Liveable?? Based on some of the pictures from various aftermarket exhausts for the GT4 it looks like most, if not all, will have some drone except for the Akrapovic( they use a 3-muffler system)- but they probably sacrifice some volume for that benefit
^ Good info./input. I think that if stock is not enough volume you most likely are one that always keeps PSE on any way. I know on my 991 GT3 that was the first button I hit after start-up and never turned it off until parked the car. If I want more volume than OEM I think I will also go valveless. You do save considerable money
Couple questions:
- When you go valveless obviously your PSE button is now functionless but what did you do with the hoses ect underneath. Did you plug them and then wrap them and store them underneath??
-Do you lose any lower-end torque?? On the GT3 this was debatable because some how is supposedly plays a role on lower-end torque
- How bad is the drone? Liveable?? Based on some of the pictures from various aftermarket exhausts for the GT4 it looks like most, if not all, will have some drone except for the Akrapovic( they use a 3-muffler system)- but they probably sacrifice some volume for that benefit
No loss of torque...at least under 2500 rpm. The drone is livable 100% and with the windows up the sound volume is not bad at all but trust me you will want both windows down to hear the exhaust all the time. Remember, this is with Sport headers.....
I removed all vacuum lines from the T where it gets split into two separate lines for each valve on the OEM system. This T is located on top of the exhaust system in the center, attached with clips to the chassis/heat shields. You end up with a single line with a metal fitting that you plug with a regular vacuum line rubber plug and can be fixed to one of the clips that used to hold the 2 vacuum lines that you removed with the OEM exhaust system. Here's a pic.
Ask and you shall receive. Here are two clips of the Race Headers/Factory PSE/IPD Plenum/82MM TB/COBB/Protune sent to me today from my client Josh in Texas...followed by his father in the 918 Spyder
Gotcha! Mitch was just there a few weeks ago to help support Predator Performance for a large 1/2 mile event, definitely would have been a good chance to check out this GT4. As for Stage 2 details, here is the dyno chart comparing stock tune + headers with our Stage 2 93 OTS map from here in Austin:
The peak gains get a little lost there as the lines cross but they're right around 6400 RPM and 7whp. Max gains are right during the midrange dip in the 4500-5000RPM range and those are roughly 15-20whp. Unfortunately, we don't have a baseline of this particular car bone stock without the headers so we'll never have a true apple to apples comparison but once the other two cars are baselined, we'll at least have some solid bone stock to Stage 1 GT4 data to compare from the same dyno to give everyone an idea of what the headers are providing/what the tune is providing.
Stage 2 GT4 maps are actually done and ready to go. I can provide them as needed for now but we're still waiting on locating a base 2.7l car with headers to test on to push all the maps to a release firmware update. We're actually meeting today to discuss pushing out the release firmware as is without the Stage 2 base car maps but we generally try to avoid doing that if at all possible. On the flip side, we know everyone else is chomping at the bit for the Stage 2 OTS maps so we don't want to continue to make everyone wait while we search for a test car. I'll keep you posted on the outcome but more than likely by the time your car arrives, the Stage 2 maps will be in full release firmware.
This is correct. One of the best features of the Accessport and our ProTuner network is giving the end user the opportunity to install whatever parts they want and not have to worry about if their tune is going to be compatible. By having your car ProTuned, the map is custom tailored to your car and your mods and you have the opportunity to discuss with your tuner the level of aggressiveness you prefer. Our OTS maps are designed to be conservative and not be the absolute maximum the car can provide because they need to be able to run on every car well, which means leaving a larger margin for safety/inherent engine differences than may be needed in most circumstances. To cover the second part of your statement yes- E-Tuning is the ability to tune the car remotely via logs you send your ProTuner. The ProTuner analyzes your logs, makes revisions to a map, emails you the map, you flash the map to the car, drive the car, log the car, and email your tuner the new log. Rinse and Repeat until your tune is complete. Though still not as precise as an on dyno tune, we have some really competent Porsche ProTuners who also E-Tune so they can dial those maps in to being nearly identical to an onsite tune.
Very true! Strangely, even the peak gains we've seen on other cars (and many of our other ProTuners) have been significantly more than 1-2 whp which is well within the dyno margin of error between runs. Definitely curious to get some more info regarding this particular case. This may surprise some people, and I'm sure there are some people who won't believe it, but we really don't like releasing or selling a product that doesn't make power. It's not fun for us, it's not fun for you, and no one likes spending money on something that doesn't actually do...anything. We try our best to be as transparent as possible with the types of gains you should expect with all of our products and welcome everyone to dyno, race, etc to back up those claims.
~Jared
The stage 2 dyno charts you posted, which headers were used with these?
Please do post dyno sheets as soon as you get a stock GT4 dyno'ed in Austin, it would be great to compare!
The stage 2 dyno charts you posted, which headers were used with these?
Please do post dyno sheets as soon as you get a stock GT4 dyno'ed in Austin, it would be great to compare!
Cargraphic catted if I remember correctly.
As for the other two cars getting dyno'd, if the weather in Austin would cooperate a bit then they should have their break in mileage soon, hopefully before we hit full TX summer mode.
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