Tire cracking in cold weather
11-13-2015, 01:26 AM
#46
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.. I swear I see the same m3's & z4's, spinning their tires at the bottom of my street every winter! 
11-13-2015, 11:13 AM
#48
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I'm in Canada, near Toronto, so we get a nice -25C day quite often here (-13F for those stuck in last century's measurement system 
), and maybe -30C at the worst (-22F) in january or february. My car will be stored in an unheated detached garage on my property, and the plan is to park the tires on carpet so they're not direct on the cement.
The car will not move all winter, so from reading this thread, if I don't touch it, and the tires are highly inflated, it should be fine if I wait until we hit warm temps and let it warm up for a couple of days.
Does anyone think I really need to go the extra step of putting the car on stands and pulling the wheels, then storing in the basement? Seems like a huge hassle.
), and maybe -30C at the worst (-22F) in january or february. My car will be stored in an unheated detached garage on my property, and the plan is to park the tires on carpet so they're not direct on the cement. The car will not move all winter, so from reading this thread, if I don't touch it, and the tires are highly inflated, it should be fine if I wait until we hit warm temps and let it warm up for a couple of days.
Does anyone think I really need to go the extra step of putting the car on stands and pulling the wheels, then storing in the basement? Seems like a huge hassle.
11-13-2015, 11:48 AM
#49
Drifting
I'm in Canada, near Toronto, so we get a nice -25C day quite often here (-13F for those stuck in last century's measurement system ), and maybe -30C at the worst (-22F) in january or february. My car will be stored in an unheated detached garage on my property, and the plan is to park the tires on carpet so they're not direct on the cement.
The car will not move all winter, so from reading this thread, if I don't touch it, and the tires are highly inflated, it should be fine if I wait until we hit warm temps and let it warm up for a couple of days.
Does anyone think I really need to go the extra step of putting the car on stands and pulling the wheels, then storing in the basement? Seems like a huge hassle.
), and maybe -30C at the worst (-22F) in january or february. My car will be stored in an unheated detached garage on my property, and the plan is to park the tires on carpet so they're not direct on the cement. The car will not move all winter, so from reading this thread, if I don't touch it, and the tires are highly inflated, it should be fine if I wait until we hit warm temps and let it warm up for a couple of days.
Does anyone think I really need to go the extra step of putting the car on stands and pulling the wheels, then storing in the basement? Seems like a huge hassle.
11-13-2015, 12:19 PM
#50
Want to learn a little about glass transition?
Plasticizers are molecules that are added to polymers to reduce the glass transition (Tg) temp. When a polymer passes through glass transition, it is changed in a fundamental way and the physical properties are very different. The rule is that if the temp is above Tg, the polymer will be soft but below the Tg, the polymer will be hard.
The white plastic pipes that are used in home construction and sprinkler systems are made from PVC, a common polymer. Without plasticizers, the Tg is very high so that the pipes are rigid at room temp.
If you add plasticizers to PVC, you can drop the Tg to, say, -40C so that it is soft at room temp. That's a no go for a rigid pipe application but great for the soft white coating around your iPhone charge cord.
Back to tires. Rubber engineers add plasticizers to adjust a tire's Tg for the targeted use. Snow tires contain plasticizers so that the Tg is very low and they stay soft in the face of a good MN blizzard. Summer tires, conversely, use a lesser amount since optimal traction is the goal but the tradeoff is a higher Tg.
The bottom line is that you should not let your tires drop below Tg
Plasticizers are molecules that are added to polymers to reduce the glass transition (Tg) temp. When a polymer passes through glass transition, it is changed in a fundamental way and the physical properties are very different. The rule is that if the temp is above Tg, the polymer will be soft but below the Tg, the polymer will be hard.
The white plastic pipes that are used in home construction and sprinkler systems are made from PVC, a common polymer. Without plasticizers, the Tg is very high so that the pipes are rigid at room temp.
If you add plasticizers to PVC, you can drop the Tg to, say, -40C so that it is soft at room temp. That's a no go for a rigid pipe application but great for the soft white coating around your iPhone charge cord.
Back to tires. Rubber engineers add plasticizers to adjust a tire's Tg for the targeted use. Snow tires contain plasticizers so that the Tg is very low and they stay soft in the face of a good MN blizzard. Summer tires, conversely, use a lesser amount since optimal traction is the goal but the tradeoff is a higher Tg.
The bottom line is that you should not let your tires drop below Tg
11-13-2015, 01:06 PM
#51
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Location: Toronto
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Now to go buy a winter car so I don't have to keep stealing my wife's GLK.
11-13-2015, 04:41 PM
#52
Here are the load distributors I talked about, if you leave the tires on. Can also be had cheaper.
11-14-2015, 01:25 PM
#54
Drifting
11-14-2015, 02:13 PM
#55
Addict & Guru
Rennlist Member
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Dedicated snow tires while great for consistently low temps and/or snow are not the same as speed rated winter performance tires (or all seasons). Snow tires, when driven on higher temperature winter days (eg 50s), result in both sloppy handling and greatly accelerated wear.
11-14-2015, 05:54 PM
#57
Pro
I have been following this thread and I understand the concern of low temps on high performance tires. If these tires are subject to cracking in cold weather then how do these tires hold up during the cold winters in Germany when Porsche GT cars sit in cold storage ports in Germany and other northern delivery ports where winter temps are below 0 F?
11-14-2015, 06:02 PM
#58
11-14-2015, 08:12 PM
#59
Consumer reports warning on performance summer tires winter cracking.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/n...king/index.htm
11-15-2015, 08:55 AM
#60
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Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New York City area
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Want to learn a little about glass transition?
Plasticizers are molecules that are added to polymers to reduce the glass transition (Tg) temp. When a polymer passes through glass transition, it is changed in a fundamental way and the physical properties are very different. The rule is that if the temp is above Tg, the polymer will be soft but below the Tg, the polymer will be hard.
The white plastic pipes that are used in home construction and sprinkler systems are made from PVC, a common polymer. Without plasticizers, the Tg is very high so that the pipes are rigid at room temp.
If you add plasticizers to PVC, you can drop the Tg to, say, -40C so that it is soft at room temp. That's a no go for a rigid pipe application but great for the soft white coating around your iPhone charge cord.
Back to tires. Rubber engineers add plasticizers to adjust a tire's Tg for the targeted use. Snow tires contain plasticizers so that the Tg is very low and they stay soft in the face of a good MN blizzard. Summer tires, conversely, use a lesser amount since optimal traction is the goal but the tradeoff is a higher Tg.
The bottom line is that you should not let your tires drop below Tg
Plasticizers are molecules that are added to polymers to reduce the glass transition (Tg) temp. When a polymer passes through glass transition, it is changed in a fundamental way and the physical properties are very different. The rule is that if the temp is above Tg, the polymer will be soft but below the Tg, the polymer will be hard.
The white plastic pipes that are used in home construction and sprinkler systems are made from PVC, a common polymer. Without plasticizers, the Tg is very high so that the pipes are rigid at room temp.
If you add plasticizers to PVC, you can drop the Tg to, say, -40C so that it is soft at room temp. That's a no go for a rigid pipe application but great for the soft white coating around your iPhone charge cord.
Back to tires. Rubber engineers add plasticizers to adjust a tire's Tg for the targeted use. Snow tires contain plasticizers so that the Tg is very low and they stay soft in the face of a good MN blizzard. Summer tires, conversely, use a lesser amount since optimal traction is the goal but the tradeoff is a higher Tg.
The bottom line is that you should not let your tires drop below Tg
Question. When a R compound tires go through a heat cycle (raising to track temp) it has a permanent effect. From what I understand each HC is further vulcanization of the tire. When a tire drops below Tg does it have any permanent effect on a tire similar to a heat cycle?