25k + MSRP for unallocated build am I nuts?
10-26-2015, 10:17 PM
#61
My local dealer had a slightly used GT4 (500 miles) pop up for around $30k over MSRP. All I can say to give folks an idea is that I came to the GT4 party waaaaayyyy late, wanted one baaaadly and have never bought a car from that dealer. That is just another way of saying I had no leverage. And as my executive coach often reminded me, when you have no leverage you are not negotiating, you are merely begging...(My fallback option was a loaded M4)
I tried to "negotiate" for $10k over. They simply laughed at me, ignored me, threw stuff at me, did not recall my phone calls, chased me away and banished me from the premises
Okay, I am exaggerating, but you get the point
I went back a few days later, and told the sales rep and manager that I don't believe they will easily sell it for $30k over, and that I will split the markup with them. I told them that I will write them a check splitting the markup right there and then and that they can either accept the check, or otherwise I will drive it over to BMW that same afternoon to pick up a completely loaded M4 that was already negotiated and ready to go, just awaiting their decision as I really wanted the GT4. They accepted. Dummy as I was, I miscalculated the MSRP with a bit, so I ended up paying a bit over half the asking difference.
My conclusion: The dealers that are asking $25-30k over are willing to give some, but not that much. How much depends on your leverage. If you have as little as I did, expect some, but not too much.
Based on my experience, if you're late to the party, want one, and as long as current demand/supply maintains you'll need to pay around $10k over min if you have lots of leverage (or simply lucky) and if not, expect to pay around $15-25K over. I also think that as word spread and unless new allocations are clarified it will likely get worse before it gets better, which it eventually will.
I tried to "negotiate" for $10k over. They simply laughed at me, ignored me, threw stuff at me, did not recall my phone calls, chased me away and banished me from the premises
Okay, I am exaggerating, but you get the pointI went back a few days later, and told the sales rep and manager that I don't believe they will easily sell it for $30k over, and that I will split the markup with them. I told them that I will write them a check splitting the markup right there and then and that they can either accept the check, or otherwise I will drive it over to BMW that same afternoon to pick up a completely loaded M4 that was already negotiated and ready to go, just awaiting their decision as I really wanted the GT4. They accepted. Dummy as I was, I miscalculated the MSRP with a bit, so I ended up paying a bit over half the asking difference.
My conclusion: The dealers that are asking $25-30k over are willing to give some, but not that much. How much depends on your leverage. If you have as little as I did, expect some, but not too much.
Based on my experience, if you're late to the party, want one, and as long as current demand/supply maintains you'll need to pay around $10k over min if you have lots of leverage (or simply lucky) and if not, expect to pay around $15-25K over. I also think that as word spread and unless new allocations are clarified it will likely get worse before it gets better, which it eventually will.
What an unpleasant experience.
10-26-2015, 10:27 PM
#62
Rennlist Member
So, one of the main guys at our local NASA track organization came up to me to compliment my sapphire blue GT4 and said it looked gorgeous and he was jealous I was tracking it that weekend at TWS.
He then proceeded to tell me he sold his allocation a while back for $35k. I almost choked and had him repeat himself. He confirmed $35k. That is definitely the highest premium I had personally heard. I guess it pays to know a lot of track nuts, including some apparently rather wealthy people who don't care about $35k.
He then proceeded to tell me he sold his allocation a while back for $35k. I almost choked and had him repeat himself. He confirmed $35k. That is definitely the highest premium I had personally heard. I guess it pays to know a lot of track nuts, including some apparently rather wealthy people who don't care about $35k.
10-26-2015, 11:17 PM
#63
To be fair to the dealer, I did say I was exaggerating to make a point LOL! (and trying to be funny ;-)) They never treated me disrespectfully or dishonestly, it was just clear to me that I had the pricing dynamics (Supply/demand) against me, had little leverage and that the dealer knew they could charge a premium for the car and sell it.
It was what it was and they did come down from the original asking price. I just had to decide whether a premium somewhat in the middle of the $30 premium was worth it for me. Due to personal circumstances I decided it was. And now I have a great car which makes me happy :-)
It was what it was and they did come down from the original asking price. I just had to decide whether a premium somewhat in the middle of the $30 premium was worth it for me. Due to personal circumstances I decided it was. And now I have a great car which makes me happy :-)
10-26-2015, 11:30 PM
#65
Although he would probably buy the lowly GT4's, even at premium, in bulk ;-)
Another time I was at COTA, which is already twice as expensive as other tracks, with Edge Addicts, and got bumped down from my run group to a lower group. When I complained the organizer tells me that one guy bought out the complete run group to have him in his Mclaren P1 and his two buddies (I think they were in Lambo's) have the track all to themselves...WTF!
Hmmm, say again that money can't buy happiness...if you think that way you just don't have enough LOL!
10-26-2015, 11:46 PM
#66
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by myBailey07
Yep, when the high roller's driver pulled his 18 wheeler outfitted with a workshop, car hauler and luxury living quarters into COTA for a regular HPDE track day with his fully race prepped lambo in the back, while he showed up in his daily driver 458 speciale, I realized that some of the track guys truly play in a different league.
Although he would probably buy the lowly GT4's, even at premium, in bulk ;-)
Another time I was at COTA, which is already twice as expensive as other tracks, with Edge Addicts, and got bumped down from my run group to a lower group. When I complained the organizer tells me that one guy bought out the complete run group to have him in his Mclaren P1 and his two buddies (I think they were in Lambo's) have the track all to themselves...WTF!
Hmmm, say again that money can't buy happiness...if you think that way you just don't have enough LOL!
Although he would probably buy the lowly GT4's, even at premium, in bulk ;-)
Another time I was at COTA, which is already twice as expensive as other tracks, with Edge Addicts, and got bumped down from my run group to a lower group. When I complained the organizer tells me that one guy bought out the complete run group to have him in his Mclaren P1 and his two buddies (I think they were in Lambo's) have the track all to themselves...WTF!
Hmmm, say again that money can't buy happiness...if you think that way you just don't have enough LOL!
10-27-2015, 12:46 AM
#67
10-27-2015, 01:31 AM
#68
Drifting
My local dealer had a slightly used GT4 (500 miles) pop up for around $30k over MSRP. All I can say to give folks an idea is that I came to the GT4 party waaaaayyyy late, wanted one baaaadly and have never bought a car from that dealer. That is just another way of saying I had no leverage. And as my executive coach often reminded me, when you have no leverage you are not negotiating, you are merely begging...(My fallback option was a loaded M4)
I tried to "negotiate" for $10k over. They simply laughed at me, ignored me, threw stuff at me, did not recall my phone calls, chased me away and banished me from the premises Okay, I am exaggerating, but you get the point
I went back a few days later, and told the sales rep and manager that I don't believe they will easily sell it for $30k over, and that I will split the markup with them. I told them that I will write them a check splitting the markup right there and then and that they can either accept the check, or otherwise I will drive it over to BMW that same afternoon to pick up a completely loaded M4 that was already negotiated and ready to go, just awaiting their decision as I really wanted the GT4. They accepted. Dummy as I was, I miscalculated the MSRP with a bit, so I ended up paying a bit over half the asking difference.
My conclusion: The dealers that are asking $25-30k over are willing to give some, but not that much. How much depends on your leverage. If you have as little as I did, expect some, but not too much.
Based on my experience, if you're late to the party, want one, and as long as current demand/supply maintains you'll need to pay around $10k over min if you have lots of leverage (or simply lucky) and if not, expect to pay around $15-25K over. I also think that as word spread and unless new allocations are clarified it will likely get worse before it gets better, which it eventually will.
I tried to "negotiate" for $10k over. They simply laughed at me, ignored me, threw stuff at me, did not recall my phone calls, chased me away and banished me from the premises
Okay, I am exaggerating, but you get the pointI went back a few days later, and told the sales rep and manager that I don't believe they will easily sell it for $30k over, and that I will split the markup with them. I told them that I will write them a check splitting the markup right there and then and that they can either accept the check, or otherwise I will drive it over to BMW that same afternoon to pick up a completely loaded M4 that was already negotiated and ready to go, just awaiting their decision as I really wanted the GT4. They accepted. Dummy as I was, I miscalculated the MSRP with a bit, so I ended up paying a bit over half the asking difference.
My conclusion: The dealers that are asking $25-30k over are willing to give some, but not that much. How much depends on your leverage. If you have as little as I did, expect some, but not too much.
Based on my experience, if you're late to the party, want one, and as long as current demand/supply maintains you'll need to pay around $10k over min if you have lots of leverage (or simply lucky) and if not, expect to pay around $15-25K over. I also think that as word spread and unless new allocations are clarified it will likely get worse before it gets better, which it eventually will.
10-27-2015, 02:34 AM
#69
NO, NO, and NO! Trust me my friend, I was in your shoes several months back and its not worth it. You can get the car @ MSRP if you wait. I just got a call from a dealership about getting a GT4 @ MSRP that I can order and put a deposit down. It is possible, you just have to call everywhere (across the U.S. with the larger dealerships being your primary target) and be willing to wait.
10-27-2015, 02:39 AM
#70
Instructor
NO, NO, and NO! Trust me my friend, I was in your shoes several months back and its not worth it. You can get the car @ MSRP if you wait. I just got a call from a dealership about getting a GT4 @ MSRP that I can order and put a deposit down. It is possible, you just have to call everywhere (across the U.S. with the larger dealerships being your primary target) and be willing to wait.
I know many people that had written agreements for msrp but the story changed when it came time to pay. I hope for your sake that you found an honest dealership (must not be in the Bay Area of East coast).
10-27-2015, 03:10 AM
#71
NO, NO, and NO! Trust me my friend, I was in your shoes several months back and its not worth it. You can get the car @ MSRP if you wait. I just got a call from a dealership about getting a GT4 @ MSRP that I can order and put a deposit down. It is possible, you just have to call everywhere (across the U.S. with the larger dealerships being your primary target) and be willing to wait.
I do wonder if it is worse on slightly used ones than brand new allocated/ordered ones. I got the impression from my local dealer that they are under a lot of pressure from Porsche to not sell over MSRP for new ones and that they don't really do that; however, that also means that for high demand cars like the GT ones it is impossible to get on their list unless you buy other cars from them for a LOT of money, and they make that pretty clear. I don't like this, but understand and can accept it as it makes good business sense to give current customer that have spend more money preference.
Now, I also got the feeling that once they deal with used vehicles they have a lot more leeway to ask whatever they feel the market justifies and they do.
Maybe the sales rep was just "full of it", but it sort of makes sense to me...
10-27-2015, 03:13 AM
#72
Racer
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NO, NO, and NO! Trust me my friend, I was in your shoes several months back and its not worth it. You can get the car @ MSRP if you wait. I just got a call from a dealership about getting a GT4 @ MSRP that I can order and put a deposit down. It is possible, you just have to call everywhere (across the U.S. with the larger dealerships being your primary target) and be willing to wait.
.Congrats on your find and wish you the best of luck. However don't be surprised if you find a lot of skeptics here... Congrats again!!! Post some pics when it arrives. Oh don't forget to go for the LWBS and PTS
.
10-27-2015, 04:04 AM
#73
Rennlist Member
YES, YES, and YES! Trust me my friend, some people think having the car NOW and NOT waiting is indeed WORTH it .
Congrats on your find and wish you the best of luck. However don't be surprised if you find a lot of skeptics here... Congrats again!!! Post some pics when it arrives. Oh don't forget to go for the LWBS and PTS.
.Congrats on your find and wish you the best of luck. However don't be surprised if you find a lot of skeptics here... Congrats again!!! Post some pics when it arrives. Oh don't forget to go for the LWBS and PTS
.My first allocation was w/o lwbs so I passed only to see the full stop on lwbs anyway and I still haven't received a new allocation. Sure my non-existent-next-at-the-dealer allocation is at msrp and it will probably come through in the next round but I was happy to pay a small premium elsewhere to lock in the build I want today before they put a stop order on something else.
10-27-2015, 04:47 AM
#74
You are very correct in that used cars can be sold for whatever the market will bring. Dealers that actually care about their reputation follow this approach. I know my dealer never sells over MSRP on new Porsches.
Now, I also got the feeling that once they deal with used vehicles they have a lot more leeway to ask whatever they feel the market justifies and they do.
10-27-2015, 08:45 AM
#75
NO, NO, and NO! Trust me my friend, I was in your shoes several months back and its not worth it. You can get the car @ MSRP if you wait. I just got a call from a dealership about getting a GT4 @ MSRP that I can order and put a deposit down. It is possible, you just have to call everywhere (across the U.S. with the larger dealerships being your primary target) and be willing to wait.