Giorgio_Pazuero

well, yes the e46 M3. but the e36 isn't far behind.

the car being soft or not doesn't say its still not a better track car than the caymen or other rivals...

Giorgio_Pazuero

the new M roadster/coupe should actually outrun the caymen if you look at the power/weight. If BMW manage to keep the M coupe light as well as the roadster,then i wont be suprized if the caymen gets beaten. The only competition the Mroadster will have is the SLK55, which nearly (and probably) comes close to beating a carrera.

So the new Mcoupe will be quick enough to give the carrera a look, and will simply bypass the caymenS, in my opinion. If they use that S54 M3 engine for it, plus its lighter weight, then it could possibly be the best bang for buck once its for sale.

mark34

The Z4 just doesn't feel like it is in the same league as the Boxsters. I don't own either, but I would put the Z4 in the TT convertible class or maybe SLK350. I am not sure the miracles of the M can bring the Z4 into that this league in any of the parameters besides "just" performance. To me, the platform is nice, but lacks the lust inducing intangibles. We'll see, I hope.

The SLK55 is sweet. When I first started considering a 2 seat sports car to replace my M3 convertible, I drove the SLK55 and Boxster S back to back. The 55 is a rocket. The interior is outstanding, though it photographs better than it is in person. I cannot live with an automatic, but even without that difference, I was shocked about how much more fun, more involving, better sounding, amazing experience the Boxster S is than the SLK55. It was no contest. Sure it isn't quite the rocket ship the 55 is, but still fast. And I do place huge value in pure back of the seat umph. I believe the Cayman S will be all that and a bit more. I like convertibles and would be happy with the Boxster S, but I am ready for a change away from a convertible, and look forward to returning to the rigidity of a coupe.

GrantG

The latest Automobile mag said it was decided that there would be an M coupe and M roadster built using the 333hp I-6 from the E46M3. The photo made the coupe look way better than the old rollerskate M coupe too. I think this is great news, as it may pressure Porsche to offer a more performance oriented version of the Cayman in the future - anyone want a GT4?

FamilyCar

OK, I'm a nobody w/ perhaps 3 posts or something. But since the discussion has broadened, why wouldn't a 06 C6 Z06 be consider a competitive alternative? Isn't the price point similar likely to be similar? Apples and oranges in terms of driving experience, to be sure. But, someone explain to me how for pure driving pleasure - on a racetrack - how one would hold an advantage over the other. I think I saw something about the C6 Z06 doing 8:40s at the Ring? I'm not a vette guy and I much prefer the look of the Cayman. But, say in 3 yrs if I were looking for a used 06 Cayman v a used 06 Z06, in say the mid-40s, I'd have a tough time picking between the 2.

GrantG

The C6Z is in a totally different league. It does 7:42.9 at the Ring. If you're looking for performance, the new Z06 cannot be beaten (or even approached) for the price. However, it will give a very different driving experience (not the accurate steering with good feedback but brute force).

Yes, the price is similar: $65k for the Z06 with all the std options most people need and $58k for the Cayman + a bunch more for basic options...

tnunnery

Didn't the Z4 beat the Boxster in one of those head-to-head tests on Top Gear/Fifth Gear? I remember being surprised at the results.

As a former M Coupe owner, I would love to see a new version. I had lot's of fun surprising many 996s and 986s on the track in that "old rollerskate."

For me, the 997 is the only car that has been more fun to drive than the M Coupe. After that realization, I placed my order. Weight distribution, chassis stiffness and a great engine made the Coupe very easy to drive and toss around - even though the suspension sucked. I'm hoping the Cayman will be similar in purpose - but it will seriously need more oomph.

IMO, Chevrolet will need a lot more than low 'Ring times to be considered as a viable option by the vast majority here.

Check out http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/index.php? for some interesting comparisons between the Exige, Elise, Boxster and 911. Those Brits have made a fun car but it has to be a b!tch to live with every day.

ian

KCR,

Have you driven the new Z4? The chasis is a wonderful improvement over the Z3. Where the old car was flexy and vauge, the new car has a solid connected feel to it. And just to throw some lap times at this game:

Lap time / Car
8:32 / Boxster S (986)
8:32 / M - Roadster (321hp)
8:32 / Z4 3.0

So the Z4 chasis with less hp laps as quickly as the fastest open top version of the old car (the M-Coupe laps 10 sec a lap faster). I know the numbers compare the Z4 to the old boxster, I just wanted to point out the car is more capable that one might think.

Giorgio_Pazuero

To be honest, if you asked me to chose between a base Boxster and a 3 litre Z4, i'd take the Z4... Its a very solid car, and 20 times better than the Z3.
Im not sure how heavy the new M coupr/roadster shal be, but for the M3 to perform as it does, being a 'glorified' seden it is, means that S54 engine is key. Thats the only point to be made. The M3 is already close enough to the carrera, and its much bigger. and so, I imagine it (the S54) will do some impressive things to the new Mcoupe, and it can only be faster. That being said, if the M3 as it is can keep up with a carrera, then i dont see why and how a Z4 with the same M3 engine, can be remotely behind the Caymen. The only real reason the M3 isn't up to pace with the carrera, is because of weight... That leads me to believe that the Z4 with the M engine in fact WILL (should) be on par with a carrera, so long as it is any lighter than the e46 M3. And if it is infact on par with the carrera, how can it be slower than a caymen?

But that is something we will find out soon enough.

GrantG

The Z4 weighs around 400 lbs less than an M3, so it should be very fast with the S54 motor...

tnunnery

Ok, overly-dramatic opinions aside...In the first test with the same driver, the Z4 beat the Boxter. In the second test, this past March, the Stig tested the Z4, Boxster and S2000. The times were:

Boxster 1:37.0
Z4 1:37.3
S2000 1:37.4

Find it here: http://www.racingflix.com/getvideo.asp?v=1114

The Z4 is a huge improvement in a number of areas over the previous platform - which was basically the old E30. I am not a fan of it's styling but I am not blind to the fact that it is a serious competitor of the Boxster.

tnunnery

It looks like we may be comapring based on different tests. In the episodes I saw (and linked to above) the times between a Boxster (2.7) and the Z4 3.0 were very close - within .3 of a second on a wet track. On the leader board, there are different times listed. I don't know how to explain that except that there were multiple tests with different results. The testing I saw, rewatched today and refer to above seems to indicate that the two are closely matched. I would be interested in your response and reaction to the video. I think having a Boxster S in the mix would have resulted in a more significant difference.

I'm very interested in how the Cayman will fit into the Exige/Boxster/911/Z4-based M Coupe hierarchy. I think the time listing is helpful - and I'm glad you brought this back to the original thread!

frayed

I'd like to simply point out that some cars are better than the sum of their parts. Porsche has proven again and again that they can build such a car. The Boxster S fits in this category; the current iteration is badass.

The Elise OTOH his the opposite IMHO. I *so* wanted it to be outstanding, and had my deposit down for 8 months waiting for the be-all-and-end-all of track focused sports car. I was disappointed after numerous test drives, and the R&T article and the laptimes at my local track of the Elise quantify my disappointment with the car. The Elise was expected to be a giant killer, but in reality it is just an interesting footnote in the world of sportscardom.

Just as the Boxter S is in almost every category better than the Elise, I predict the Cayman S will similarly trounce the Exige. Sad, I think, b/c Porsche is saddled with building street worthy sports cars while Lotus simply executed on their philosophy, road manners be damned. Could you imagine if Porsche through caution to the wind, ignored street manners, DOT regs, luxury, etc? The product would be badass and I continue to hope for an RS/CS version of the crocodile.

fahren affair

The Elise OTOH his the opposite IMHO. I *so* wanted it to be outstanding, and had my deposit down for 8 months waiting for the be-all-and-end-all of track focused sports car. I was disappointed after numerous test drives, and the R&T article and the laptimes at my local track of the Elise quantify my disappointment with the car. The Elise was expected to be a giant killer, but in reality it is just an interesting footnote in the world of sportscardom.

what about the car was a let down? i dove one too briefly and couldn't assess it...i've had it on my short list along w/ the cayman S.

frayed

Great steering and transient response, but the power was underwhelming, as was the shifter/brake/clutch interactions. Impossible to heel-toe. Understeered with a vengeance as well. Visibility was poor. It felt quite a bit like a car that only lasted 6 months in my garage, the Honda S2000, except smaller, uglier and lighter.

Other than steering feel, the car just didn't have that 'it' factor that I expected. Fitty grand for a track focused sports car, it better make you giggle with excitement when you push it hard. It didn't.

You should drive one for yourself and decide.