Just when I was leaning toward the T, you bring me back to the GT4...

 

^ You are welcome, and it does appear we have similar ideas of what a Porsche should be.

One thing that comes to mind with your words above is the fact I looked to buy a 987.2 Spyder new, which would have been my first new Porsche. It wasn't a good idea at the time, but the car was that compelling. The 981 GT4 was similarly compelling, and my better half said, "Go get your car." At some level both were probably appealing to me as modern Porsches that hew closer to the 914 I started out in, and have kept all these years. And, perhaps, the 911 SC that was my second Porsche as well as the "regular" Boxsters and Caymans that followed.

So, we have very similar tastes indeed, and I looked at all three of the cars you are considering. Your comments above, and coming test drive, bring one other thought that may be of use and something you may know about Porsches: There are those that hit you over the head immediately (like so many other brands), and those that are a "slow burn." I like both, but the latter are the ones that are really fun to own over a long time. And, on the road (not the track), the two of your three that are "slow burn" Porsches are the 987.2 Spyder and 991.2 Carrera T. The satisfaction that comes with time, with each of these cars, is significant. I could own either as keepers. My GT4 exceeded both in terms of the first few dates—and never disappointed on track—but its experience was more "wow" on the first few dates if that makes sense?

 

What you wrote hit home. From age 16 to 38 I never owned a car over a year. Then life changed, I lost all my money and ended up buying a used Jetta in 2009 with a 2.5 and MT "while I got up again". I still have that car. Not only because it reminds me to stay humble, but because it's the one car that never let me down and made so many memories with. And now, that's what I look for. More timeless pieces that I can keep through the EV era and that I won't get bored of but rather grow with as a driver. So yes, it makes sense and given that context, I can see how the T might just be the right car. Thank you again.

 

As a forever car, I always tell myself the one I'm driving now is the 1. It's sort of like which is my favorite race track and I say it depends. I'm going to list what for me is my top 5 potential keepers in no particular order.

997.2 GT3RS bonkers $$$$ right now
991.2 GT3 I don't like the 991.2 body style
981/718 GT4
991.2 Carrera T for its simplicity
And the 5th option is still TBD

Peter

 

That's a great list. Mine looks something like this (I never have and don't think I ever will pay over $200k for a car):
964 RSA - attainable version of the RS - the pinnacle of almost-last-gen aircooled minimalism
993 C2S - the most gorgeous 911 *** and last-of-breed
996 GT3 - raw watercooled beast
987 Spyder - last modern Porsche masterfully harkening back to its roots
My fifth is also the 997 GT3 RS - last of the raw Mezger GTs in supercool, bubblegum clothes but not unless prices come down to the high 100s.

The garage I'm working to have now is:
Macan Turbo PP - the ultimate 4dr Porsche as my daily - I already own it
987 Spyder - as mentioned above - looking at one this weekend
The third one is TBA and will either be a T or a GT4 - almost fully sold on the T, especially since I just realized it's the RSA of the modern Porsches

 

If you care about resale, GT4.

If you don't care about resale, still GT4.

 

Best of luck with your decision and as the saying goes, high class problem! Good for you for coming back from your setbacks! Been there myself and have that T shirt hanging in our closet. It is humbling and good for you for keeping the Jetta to stay humble. Amazing how big setbacks can do that to you. Makes you appreciate it more when it happens and also makes you realize you can do it again if you have to. Not that anyone wants to.

Don't have much to add other than don't feel you can make a bad choice here. I am impressed by the feedback provided by others and feel it captures the essence of both. The T is a great platform to mod but the GT4 is better out of the box. The GT4 sounds so much better at WOT. The 981 even more so than the 718. I think everyone has a done a great job of covering the comparison.

Currently have a T and a 718 GT4. I feel its a win/win either way for you. As I remind myself often... Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Do research, think a little, make a decision and move on. No regrets. There's no perfect choice here or anywhere as both have some benefits over the other.

When/if we get there, might be the perfect time to do just that. As much as I'd hate for people to lose jobs, wealth, etc. I am putting back some cash and have my shopping list ready, as I wouldn't mind being able to pick up some things at much lower prices should opportunity present itself.


This resonated with me. I am honestly suprised by how good the T is and how it continues to grow on me more and more over time.

Quick back story. I was going to trade in my T on my GT4 in 2020. On our way to the dealership (while driving the T), my wife asked me why I looked sad. She said I thought you were excited about the GT4. I replied, absolutely, but I really like the T and am going to miss it. She, being the great wife she is, said well, why don't you just keep it. She added we are doing okay and how are you going to build your dream collection if you keep selling the ones you like. Two plus years later, it's still here in the garage. The GT4, to me, has more of an initial wow factor that the T doesn't have. The T just continues to be really good and never disappoints.

I know there is a lot of sentiment out there that ranges from T love to the T being an overrated parts bin marketing exercise. All I can say is it's one that grows on you. I am one that usually buys and sells way too often and after 2-3 years, get bored and move on to the next ones. I am slowly building a small collection of the ones that are keepers and feel both are in that group. Now my bigger problem is storage lol, which is my current project. Always something!

Here's a quick recent snap shot while moving them around with their 993 little sister.

 

My 2nd 911 was a Guards Red 993 Basket Handle, got destroyed in a hurricane. I had 2 6GT3's and a 6GT2 and loved the raw driving/sound but the body style was meh, no hips, and if it didn't have the full leather interior it was pretty dismal inside.

Peter

 

This reminds me: I need to start a thread where we can discuss resale of the GT4.

I had a 95 C2 as well. My first 993. Sorry about your loss. Wonderful cars. And yeah, I've never met anyone who loved the look of the 996.

 

That's a lovely stable you got there. Love the 993. Congratulations on keeping the T and having a supporting wife in this addiction of ours. And yes, yours and Pete's comments really landed on me about how the GT4 is more shiny and how the real diamond in the rough is the T. As I said above, it dawned on me that the T is the RSA of the watercooled cars except you can tune this one to RS spec. I love that. I also love that, as balanced as the Cayman platform is, what I love about 911s is the challenge of learning to drive with the engine hanging in the back. They've dialed the issues out over the years, but it's what I loved about my previous 911s. Do I really want to omit that from my next p-car? I don't think so. And if it's going to be a 911, the T is the one. The underdog. The one that everyone was confused about and now people are starting to get. But yes, the struggle is with the idea of the turbo when I'm really an NA guy and when the Gt4 does a great job at being an NA car. Good for you for not compromising.

Thank you for your non p-car comments. I did okay for myself. My parents left me on my own financially from early on on purpose. I put myself through school and bought my first 911 at 28. I kept doing better and in 2006 I made a move that could've put me in early retirement. I locked in, things took longer than expected and I got dragged into 2007/2008. The rest is history. By March 2009 I was trying to figure out how I was going to keep a roof over my head. That's when I bought the Jetta. It was painful as I went through it but it's one of the best things that has happened to me in life. So many lessons learned. Who your true friends are is a big one. Staying humble is another. One of them is how to properly deal with a recession. I'm debt free and sitting on dry powder. Recessions are when wealth is catalyzed - sowed and reapt. The one thing I've struggled with in this decision is buying a car right now at all when I don't need one. But I live in Mexico and the market is different here. Fewer special cars come here. I know out of the 992 Heritage Editions, Mexico only got 8. US got over 1k 981 GT4s and Canada only got 300. I bet Mexico's numbers are in that range or lower. So when the right car with the right options list and the right color combo come up in the used market, I'm debating if it's worth taking some cash and overpaying to get what I really want or if I ought to keep my head down, stay focused on my business and start the search when I'm on the other side. Being objective with ourselves is challenging sometimes. Part of me thinks none of us know if/when or how hard it's going to hit or for how long and we could all die tomorrow. This period of inflation is far more complex than previous ones so we can't really rely on historical data to make decisions. And at the end of the day, I'm not dropping 300k on a GT3. I'm dropping under 90k if I buy - cars are cheaper here. But if I buy, I'm only buying one. If I buy the T, we'll have twins. Mine is white on black too.

 

You are not wrong, but did you ever notice that EVERY financial/economic upheaval is “without precedent?” Stagflation in the 70s when I was just a kid — never been seen before. Economic theory says you can’t have inflation and stagnation at the same time. But we did. 1987 S&L crisis, early-90s recession, tech stock recession in early-2000s, housing recession, 2018 Q4 severe pull-back. None of them were supposed to happen, and only get incorporated into the economics literature post-facto.

So I would suggest this isn’t really “far more complex” than others; more like it appears different because we’re looking sideways at it rather than backwards, when the pundits have fully explained it.

As for your dilemma… I have a friend who bought a Lava Orange 2019 T in 2020 with LWBs. I have a GT4. We swapped cars up in the mountains once right after he got it. I was really surprised at what a fabulous engine the base Carrera had and just how good overall the T was. I wouldn’t mind having a T as my only sportscar, not in the least. I would rather have a 4 for the track.

 

Touche regarding the economy. What I meant is that this time around it was kicked off by supply constraints due to Covid but now we also have the energy crisis caused by the war as well as policy in the US. It's not as straight forward as the period after WW2 when supply was constrained temporarily and prices shot up but then quickly came back down.

As for the car, ultimately, I won't go wrong with either car. I'm lucky to have this problem. My use is also complicated by the terrible roads where I live and the distance to the nearest decent track, which will likely dictate what I buy more than the other variables. Will likely pull the trigger soon.

 

Julien,

You can't go wrong with either car.

I went from 2019 T to 2016 GT4 just about 5 months ago. While I had my T, I was driving it everywhere, and it was not my daily. With my GT4, I have to be very very cautious because of the ride and low-hanging front splitter. Would I still be happy with T, heck yeah! It was Miami Blue with 7 spd manual, got it CPO with 3.2k on it, and sold it two years later at 9.6k on it. My GT4 came with less than 1000 miles on it, and there are less than 2000 miles on it now. On the other hand, GT4 is a car that I take a 10 miles detour up the mountain behind me to go grab a coffee in the next city, which is less than 2 miles away. The goal is to put about 40-50k miles on it before thinking about another GT car. Heck, I might get there at all. My wife and I plan to sell everything once our youngest finishes college in 6 years and volunteer in Southeast Asia.

Having said that, you have a dilemma that 99% of the world population wishes they had. Count your blessing and get the car that makes the most sense to you.

Btw, I just came back from a 25min "oil-warm up" Starbucks run this morning. It was fun with my T and just as much, with different exhaust note, with my GT4.

Cheers,
-Mack

 

I'd recommend doing more research on the reliability of the DeMan 4.5L conversion if you are going to track the car. I did that last winter and followed the break-in instructions religiously before tracking the car. I took it easy on the engine for the first track days and had the oil changed after 5 track days. They found metal in the oil filters and the cylinders were scored. DeMan has the car and we're sorting it out.

 

These types of engine builds are great in theory, but they haven't gone through the rigorous testing of an OEM engine. Although 45 track days with no oil change? Not many engines could withstand that, especially if run at higher ambient temps