New Decade, New Motor - My 4.5l DeMan Motorsport Build
10-24-2020 | 05:18 PM
#391
Thread Starter
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 637
Likes: 353
From: 4.5Live Free Or Die
Figured as the season starts to wind down here New England I'd throw an update on the thread. Some notes so far about 3k miles into the build:
- I'm already depressed that it's not long now until winter hits and the car goes into hibernation. If it wasn't 2020 I'd consider shipping the car out to friends in California, hang there for awhile, drag out the season, and rack up more miles before she's tucked away.
- It's by far and away the best sports car I've ever owned (Lotus Elise, E36 M3, E46 M3, 996 GT3 to name a few of my prior rides), heck I'd argue car in general.
- It gives me the most smiles per mile hands down. All the noises and the power are insanely infectious. I used to drive the GT4 and wish it had a little more of everything....post 4.5L there are days I worry it's got too much
...but not really. It's perfect. - @Rick DeMan service remains absolutely world class. We talk all the time, he asks for feedback and iterates on that feedback. Heck somedays I wake up with a new tune in my inbox and he says he fixed something that I didn't even realize was an issue. Makes me laugh because he usually apologies for it being a problem. It was never a problem, the car was perfect as it was, but if he makes it 1-2% better every few months who am I to complain? His pursuit of perfection is infectious. It's going to be wild to see the progression a year from now on the 981, 718, and other cars he's tinkering with.
- The family aspect of this whole thing has extended beyond Rick and his crew at the shop. Seeing and meeting other folks like @Luca Paindelli @burnergt4 @ajw45 and others has been amazing. Special shout out to Phife the shop dog who if Rick doesn't watch out may end up back in NH one of these days
- There's a deep desire to throw all the Northeast 4.5L builds in a shipping truck and do a trip together. 5+ 4.5L's showing up for Smokies or even overseas would be a hell of a party.
- Zero desire to upgrade. I can't even imagine what would be worth upgrading to. The financial expenditure would have to be 2-3x to get even close, and even then, why bother. The GT4 ticks all the boxes now.
Last edited by BealeAss; 10-24-2020 at 05:25 PM.
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10-24-2020 | 08:02 PM
#393
Racer
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 382
Likes: 17
From: Long Island, NY
Now that I’m nearly 400 miles into driving it today (I literally can’t stop taking it out ), let’s talk about it.
Overall
This thing absolutely f’ing rips. If you went from a stock GT4 and then into this you’d be hard pressed to believe that the two cars are related. What’s neat about it is that it’s not one single thing that blows you away, all of the bits and pieces of the build added up to create a package that works together flawlessly. Unfortunately for my wallet (or so I originally thought) the longer the car sat there the more pieces I added to the build pushing the cost up a bit, but I’m glad I did every one of them. Had I not I would have missed out on such a cohesive experience. The best way to talk about it this is to break those pieces down so here we go.
4.5L Motor + DeMan Motorsport Tune
The car feels like it just got thrown a high revving V8 into it. It’s insta-torque in every gear at every throttle application across the board. It really doesn’t take much throttle for the car to get up and boogie at a serious pace, and when you decide to punch the pedal to the floor you get real pushback into the seat. The most relatable feeling for me was being in a friends modified 996 GT2. It's got a bunch of that warp speed effect to it at certain times, almost like being shot out of a cannon. It's so good, I've had a s%*t eating grin all day about it.
It feels special, now you can feel, hear, and see just how much these things got hamstrung from the factory. It’s a GT car with a GT motor, finally.
Flat spots? What flat spots? Wait GT4's have flat spots?
Where did we land exactly power wise? 540hp/424tq at the crank and 488hp/388tq at the wheels. Hard to complain about that...and I may even be wrong since we had a handful of dyno sheets
Rick's likely going to post up some thoughts and final numbers at some point.
Most people won't care, but for me this matters. To know nothing really changes from a normal maintenance routine perspective is awesome. Oil changes and filters stay the same according to factory settings and the same for filter replacements etc. Maybe I'm getting old, but that weirdly excites me.
Guards 2nd-5th Gearing by DeMan Motorsport
REALLY glad about two things here. The first is that I decided to do the gears in general. The second is that Rick convinced me to wait for the newly minted ratios he designed. About 3 months into the build I was getting a little ancy (which made no sense given it was March in the Northeast), but Rick convinced me to hang tight and that it would be worth it. Just another situation where he was right…..insanely right. When I first went to the shop I test drove the Guards 2-5 setup and it was sweet, clearly the winner in my eyes given what I would be using the car for the most. If there was a way to improve upon that then giddy up.
Rick's custom spec to align with the motor is perfection. He got the RPM drop in an ideal spot in the range in every gear like you’d have with a PDK…but in a manual. It’s absurd how good it is.
2nd gear being too long is a thing of very distant past. It feels good to row some gears again, reminds me of my 996 GT3 which I adored that gearing setup from a mph perspective. Cruising around town now, I found myself in 4th or even 5th where I’d normally cruise in 3rd. But man when you’re on the throttle it’s just BANG BANG BANG through the gears. It’s perfect. PDK perfect, but with a manual, who knew it was possible
Keeping 6th gear stock for highway cruising was worth it. The gas mileage for the 215 miles home from CT was as if the car had never been modified (except for when I would do 2nd-4th gear pulls and I was watching the fuel range drop by 10 miles each time).
Stock PSE + DeMan Motorsport Headers (catless) Combo
I love it, there’s no way I’d want anything louder. Sound is great, volume is great, and most importantly ZERO drone anywhere. Highway cruising was perfect, around town perfect, and if you want to be subtle just hit the exhaust button.
Speaking of the exhaust button, it actually does something now. At stock setup I always estimated about a 20% reduction in noise, this is probably more like a 50-60% reduction with the motor and headers now installed. Burbles are drastically reduced and the noise is mostly motor. It’s really neat to toggle between the two. With the button pushed EVERYONE knows you’re coming, with it off only about 60% of the crowd hears you from ¼ mile away. Ok maybe half mile.
We programmed the burbles to be about 0.5s , it’s more than enough, arguably could go a touch shorter.
Clutch and Flywheel Upgrade
This was another one of my concerns from the get go, I liked the factory clutch since it was so well mated to the shift throw. Not too heavy, but also not too light. Happy to report that the upgraded setup Rick recommends with the build hadn't crossed my mind the entire day as not being a factory setup. And as for the flywheel, what's interesting is that often times if you do these one off they spin up so fast its almost out of character compared to the rest of the car, but here it slots in perfectly. Again, forgot I even had it all day today.
Guards LSD
Great addition, so happy I added this towards the end of the build, great value for money and given everything else I did seemed stupid not to do it. The car has a lot more mechanical grip now that you can feel at all speeds. It needs a little break-in though, but that’s fine, I’ll just go do some figure 8’s in a parking lot early tomorrow morning to finish that process off.
DSC Sport Module
As crazy as it sounds, some of the best money I’ve ever spent on the car. This little $1,300 part is SO GOOD. Car feels great over bumps at high speed and around town. It takes certain things like highway expansion joints being jarring to comfortable. A few times on the highway over some construction areas I caught myself doing the oh **** wince and cringe face (you know you know what I mean) only to find myself thinking wow that was a barely noticeable hit to the car. We left the settings as they come from the DSC guys.
The best way I’ve heard it phrased is that its like the movie Limitless for your shocks. They’ve now gone from using 25% of their brain to 85%. That’s hilariously accurate.
Suspension Tweaks
All we did was lower the factory suspension a bit and re-align it. 15mm drop in the rear and 5mm in the front. The car looks light years better and my god that alignment came out good. It’s as if the wheel gap is gone, but the car itself doesn’t look lower. I love it.
Working w/ Rick
Over the years in the car hobby and other places in my life I’ve dealt with a lot of folks on some pretty financially consequential projects and I consider this project one of them. Everyone is a good sales person and wants to sell you the world to get the cash in the door, so you end up with high expectations and often pretty big disappointments.
As it pertains to Rick and the shop, those high expectations were consistently delivered on. Nothing was hidden, nothing was a surprise, and every single piece of advice he gave during the build ended up spot on (I call him the GT4 whisperer). What made it great was it felt like Rick and I were a team trying to build the best car possible and making decisions together that related to the finished product being as good as it could be and not just taking a larger share of my wallet.
Communication was consistent (through 5 months mind you), enthusiastic, and fun. At this point after all this time I 100% consider Rick a friend. I had a lot of fun joking around with him and sorting through everything as we went. Also, as bizarre as it sounds it’s an amazing feeling to get an invoice on a big project and have it be down to the $1 what you were quoted. That says a lot.
The same can be said for timing, Rick estimated 2 months for the build which had the gearing option not arisen would have been the exact time frame for it. Not often these kind of things go as planned on that front, again another pleasant surprise.
If anyone is even on the fence about a 4.5L build or just needs some work done on their Porsche you’d be a bit nuts to not send it to Rick and the guys at DeMan Motorsports. Great place to visit, even greater place to spend some hard earned $’s.
), let’s talk about it.Overall
This thing absolutely f’ing rips. If you went from a stock GT4 and then into this you’d be hard pressed to believe that the two cars are related. What’s neat about it is that it’s not one single thing that blows you away, all of the bits and pieces of the build added up to create a package that works together flawlessly. Unfortunately for my wallet (or so I originally thought) the longer the car sat there the more pieces I added to the build pushing the cost up a bit, but I’m glad I did every one of them. Had I not I would have missed out on such a cohesive experience. The best way to talk about it this is to break those pieces down so here we go.
4.5L Motor + DeMan Motorsport Tune
The car feels like it just got thrown a high revving V8 into it. It’s insta-torque in every gear at every throttle application across the board. It really doesn’t take much throttle for the car to get up and boogie at a serious pace, and when you decide to punch the pedal to the floor you get real pushback into the seat. The most relatable feeling for me was being in a friends modified 996 GT2. It's got a bunch of that warp speed effect to it at certain times, almost like being shot out of a cannon. It's so good, I've had a s%*t eating grin all day about it.
It feels special, now you can feel, hear, and see just how much these things got hamstrung from the factory. It’s a GT car with a GT motor, finally.
Flat spots? What flat spots? Wait GT4's have flat spots?
Where did we land exactly power wise? 540hp/424tq at the crank and 488hp/388tq at the wheels. Hard to complain about that...and I may even be wrong since we had a handful of dyno sheets
Rick's likely going to post up some thoughts and final numbers at some point.Most people won't care, but for me this matters. To know nothing really changes from a normal maintenance routine perspective is awesome. Oil changes and filters stay the same according to factory settings and the same for filter replacements etc. Maybe I'm getting old, but that weirdly excites me.
Guards 2nd-5th Gearing by DeMan Motorsport
REALLY glad about two things here. The first is that I decided to do the gears in general. The second is that Rick convinced me to wait for the newly minted ratios he designed. About 3 months into the build I was getting a little ancy (which made no sense given it was March in the Northeast), but Rick convinced me to hang tight and that it would be worth it. Just another situation where he was right…..insanely right. When I first went to the shop I test drove the Guards 2-5 setup and it was sweet, clearly the winner in my eyes given what I would be using the car for the most. If there was a way to improve upon that then giddy up.
Rick's custom spec to align with the motor is perfection. He got the RPM drop in an ideal spot in the range in every gear like you’d have with a PDK…but in a manual. It’s absurd how good it is.
2nd gear being too long is a thing of very distant past. It feels good to row some gears again, reminds me of my 996 GT3 which I adored that gearing setup from a mph perspective. Cruising around town now, I found myself in 4th or even 5th where I’d normally cruise in 3rd. But man when you’re on the throttle it’s just BANG BANG BANG through the gears. It’s perfect. PDK perfect, but with a manual, who knew it was possible
Keeping 6th gear stock for highway cruising was worth it. The gas mileage for the 215 miles home from CT was as if the car had never been modified (except for when I would do 2nd-4th gear pulls and I was watching the fuel range drop by 10 miles each time
).Stock PSE + DeMan Motorsport Headers (catless) Combo
I love it, there’s no way I’d want anything louder. Sound is great, volume is great, and most importantly ZERO drone anywhere. Highway cruising was perfect, around town perfect, and if you want to be subtle just hit the exhaust button.
Speaking of the exhaust button, it actually does something now. At stock setup I always estimated about a 20% reduction in noise, this is probably more like a 50-60% reduction with the motor and headers now installed. Burbles are drastically reduced and the noise is mostly motor. It’s really neat to toggle between the two. With the button pushed EVERYONE knows you’re coming, with it off only about 60% of the crowd hears you from ¼ mile away. Ok maybe half mile.
We programmed the burbles to be about 0.5s , it’s more than enough, arguably could go a touch shorter.
Clutch and Flywheel Upgrade
This was another one of my concerns from the get go, I liked the factory clutch since it was so well mated to the shift throw. Not too heavy, but also not too light. Happy to report that the upgraded setup Rick recommends with the build hadn't crossed my mind the entire day as not being a factory setup. And as for the flywheel, what's interesting is that often times if you do these one off they spin up so fast its almost out of character compared to the rest of the car, but here it slots in perfectly. Again, forgot I even had it all day today.
Guards LSD
Great addition, so happy I added this towards the end of the build, great value for money and given everything else I did seemed stupid not to do it. The car has a lot more mechanical grip now that you can feel at all speeds. It needs a little break-in though, but that’s fine, I’ll just go do some figure 8’s in a parking lot early tomorrow morning to finish that process off.
DSC Sport Module
As crazy as it sounds, some of the best money I’ve ever spent on the car. This little $1,300 part is SO GOOD. Car feels great over bumps at high speed and around town. It takes certain things like highway expansion joints being jarring to comfortable. A few times on the highway over some construction areas I caught myself doing the oh **** wince and cringe face (you know you know what I mean) only to find myself thinking wow that was a barely noticeable hit to the car. We left the settings as they come from the DSC guys.
The best way I’ve heard it phrased is that its like the movie Limitless for your shocks. They’ve now gone from using 25% of their brain to 85%. That’s hilariously accurate.
Suspension Tweaks
All we did was lower the factory suspension a bit and re-align it. 15mm drop in the rear and 5mm in the front. The car looks light years better and my god that alignment came out good. It’s as if the wheel gap is gone, but the car itself doesn’t look lower. I love it.
Working w/ Rick
Over the years in the car hobby and other places in my life I’ve dealt with a lot of folks on some pretty financially consequential projects and I consider this project one of them. Everyone is a good sales person and wants to sell you the world to get the cash in the door, so you end up with high expectations and often pretty big disappointments.
As it pertains to Rick and the shop, those high expectations were consistently delivered on. Nothing was hidden, nothing was a surprise, and every single piece of advice he gave during the build ended up spot on (I call him the GT4 whisperer). What made it great was it felt like Rick and I were a team trying to build the best car possible and making decisions together that related to the finished product being as good as it could be and not just taking a larger share of my wallet.
Communication was consistent (through 5 months mind you), enthusiastic, and fun. At this point after all this time I 100% consider Rick a friend. I had a lot of fun joking around with him and sorting through everything as we went. Also, as bizarre as it sounds it’s an amazing feeling to get an invoice on a big project and have it be down to the $1 what you were quoted. That says a lot.
The same can be said for timing, Rick estimated 2 months for the build which had the gearing option not arisen would have been the exact time frame for it. Not often these kind of things go as planned on that front, again another pleasant surprise.
If anyone is even on the fence about a 4.5L build or just needs some work done on their Porsche you’d be a bit nuts to not send it to Rick and the guys at DeMan Motorsports. Great place to visit, even greater place to spend some hard earned $’s.
Great write up and thank you for sharing - Enjoy and be Safe... Maybe I'll be next :-)
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Rick DeMan (02-21-2021)
10-24-2020 | 11:34 PM
#394
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Joined: May 2020
Posts: 269
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Rick DeMan (02-21-2021)
10-25-2020 | 01:03 AM
#395
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 152
Likes: 69
For whatever it's worth, I just spent three weeks running in a 991.2 GT3 (PDK) and a 991 Speedster, and the new 4.0 just didn't WOW me like the 4.5L GT4. To quote Chris Harris in the most ironic way: "it feels a bit flat?" Over 5500rpm it really picks up, but down low it just doesn't shove you in the seat. I thought it was just me, but the old 4.0 (991.1 RS) felt like a much stronger midrange. That car was way more fun. I even had a friend ride along and he also immediately perceived the old one felt better. Weird.
So it's no surprise to anyone here but it was the last nail in the GT3 coffin for me. The Speedster felt much more special than the GT3 -and i'm completely smitten for reasons other than HP- but the price is just insane.
What this exercise did do though, is really tip my scales to get another Spyder in 718 flavor. Of course, Rick is already one step ahead future proofing my decision matrix..
So it's no surprise to anyone here but it was the last nail in the GT3 coffin for me. The Speedster felt much more special than the GT3 -and i'm completely smitten for reasons other than HP- but the price is just insane.
What this exercise did do though, is really tip my scales to get another Spyder in 718 flavor. Of course, Rick is already one step ahead future proofing my decision matrix..
Last edited by twentyseven; 10-25-2020 at 01:05 AM.
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10-25-2020 | 11:52 PM
#396
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Joined: May 2020
Posts: 269
Likes: 174
We should think about timing it with the Manthey Racing track day event at the Nordschleifen -> https://www.manthey-racing.de/en/road-racing/events
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10-27-2020 | 12:31 AM
#398
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,413
Likes: 226
From: In my Garage
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Rick DeMan (11-03-2020)
10-27-2020 | 08:11 PM
#400
Track Day
Joined: Oct 2020
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11-03-2020 | 04:25 PM
#402
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From: Nyack N.Y.
__________________
2016 GT4-R
Rick DeMan
DeMan Motorsport
Upper Nyack, NY
845 727 3070
Porsche Sales & Service
Porsche Race services and parts
www.DeManMotorsport.com
2016 GT4-R
Rick DeMan
DeMan Motorsport
Upper Nyack, NY
845 727 3070
Porsche Sales & Service
Porsche Race services and parts
www.DeManMotorsport.com
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11-13-2020 | 06:04 PM
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BealeAss (11-23-2020)
02-21-2021 | 01:22 AM
#405
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Watch the whole thing and enjoy the sound or fast forward to 3:02 and watch the 4.5L GT4 just disappear in front of the 991.2 GT3rs with it's pedal on the floor 
https://youtu.be/HqlxYnGSEKk
https://youtu.be/HqlxYnGSEKk
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