Fun factor test: 997RS vs GT4
08-02-2018 | 08:31 PM
#16
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: May 2013
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From: driving
I have driven both quite a bit.
I would not give up a 997.2 RS for a GT4 for street occasional drive purposes. No question. The .2RS has much more of a mechanical feel with all of the noises, vibrations, etc that go along with it. You feel like you are driving a machine. It is a little rough around the edges which for me means more fun on the street for me. Hydraulic steering rack is a plus too regardless of how good the electric steering is getting. Mezger engine. Shorter gearing, etc.
If I was building a track weapon to beat on then I would probably start with the GT4 platform. Mid engine all the way.
If I was planning on taking a long trip or more extensive street use the GT4 would probably get the nod if I had to pick between them. It is quieter, more comfortable, a tiny bit softer, overhang is shorter and nose clearance better. The interior, radio, switchgear is all more modern so that is a nice thing on the street. But then again for that purpose I still think there are better modern P cars for the street.
I would not give up a 997.2 RS for a GT4 for street occasional drive purposes. No question. The .2RS has much more of a mechanical feel with all of the noises, vibrations, etc that go along with it. You feel like you are driving a machine. It is a little rough around the edges which for me means more fun on the street for me. Hydraulic steering rack is a plus too regardless of how good the electric steering is getting. Mezger engine. Shorter gearing, etc.
If I was building a track weapon to beat on then I would probably start with the GT4 platform. Mid engine all the way.
If I was planning on taking a long trip or more extensive street use the GT4 would probably get the nod if I had to pick between them. It is quieter, more comfortable, a tiny bit softer, overhang is shorter and nose clearance better. The interior, radio, switchgear is all more modern so that is a nice thing on the street. But then again for that purpose I still think there are better modern P cars for the street.
08-04-2018 | 01:04 PM
#18
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 436
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From: Ontario & California
I've owned a # of 997's, although not a 997.2 GT3RS. I have driven a few of these cars, & appreciate the comments people are making.
IMHO a GT4 with X51 4L conversion would be much more fun, better value, & just crazy on the track.
IMHO a GT4 with X51 4L conversion would be much more fun, better value, & just crazy on the track.
Last edited by G-forceGT4; 08-04-2018 at 01:06 PM. Reason: grammatical error
08-05-2018 | 12:15 PM
#19
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2016
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I had a GT4 and loved the brakes (steel) but the steering felt artificial and in the wet gave no sense of grip. The motor had plenty of torque but combined with the tall gearing felt flat in the upper reaches of 3rd gear. To get an inspiring sound I had to have the windows down and the loud exhaust button pushed.
I sold it and bought a 997 RS 4.0. The 4.0 is far more thrilling at any speed. It makes a much more authentic, musical, loud and exciting sound and feels so much more alive: more inertia-free; more on its toes; it writhes more out of a corner under full power; has more progressive breakaway; more understeer to manage in hairpins; a more challenging gearshift (heavier, notchier and lighter flywheel); and steering that feels mechanically connected and provides detailed feedback.
I still think of the GT4 fondly, it was a great car, but the only thing I miss is the extra luggage space for touring. For practicality the 4.0 counters with front axle lift. I prefer the much tighter fit of the CGT buckets but the 918 buckets provide more lateral support for the shoulders.
When I had the GT4 I did a comparison on the same road circuit with a 997.1 RS that I considered changing to. That was a much closer call. If anyone is interested I can post a detailed review I did for my car mates at the time.
I sold it and bought a 997 RS 4.0. The 4.0 is far more thrilling at any speed. It makes a much more authentic, musical, loud and exciting sound and feels so much more alive: more inertia-free; more on its toes; it writhes more out of a corner under full power; has more progressive breakaway; more understeer to manage in hairpins; a more challenging gearshift (heavier, notchier and lighter flywheel); and steering that feels mechanically connected and provides detailed feedback.
I still think of the GT4 fondly, it was a great car, but the only thing I miss is the extra luggage space for touring. For practicality the 4.0 counters with front axle lift. I prefer the much tighter fit of the CGT buckets but the 918 buckets provide more lateral support for the shoulders.
When I had the GT4 I did a comparison on the same road circuit with a 997.1 RS that I considered changing to. That was a much closer call. If anyone is interested I can post a detailed review I did for my car mates at the time.
08-05-2018 | 12:22 PM
#20
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Joined: Jan 2017
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From: Tucson, AZ
Driving observations aside, I think the emotional factor is in favor of the 997.1 or.2 GT3RS. I think the 997 is the best looking water cooled 911. Looking at the 997 GT3s and RSs makes me lust after one every time!
Last edited by Five12Free; 08-05-2018 at 01:55 PM.
08-05-2018 | 01:34 PM
#21
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Joined: Feb 2007
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From: ^ The Bay Bridge
I had a GT4 and loved the brakes (steel) but the steering felt artificial and in the wet gave no sense of grip. The motor had plenty of torque but combined with the tall gearing felt flat in the upper reaches of 3rd gear. To get an inspiring sound I had to have the windows down and the loud exhaust button pushed.
I sold it and bought a 997 RS 4.0. The 4.0 is far more thrilling at any speed. It makes a much more authentic, musical, loud and exciting sound and feels so much more alive: more inertia-free; more on its toes; it writhes more out of a corner under full power; has more progressive breakaway; more understeer to manage in hairpins; a more challenging gearshift (heavier, notchier and lighter flywheel); and steering that feels mechanically connected and provides detailed feedback.
I still think of the GT4 fondly, it was a great car, but the only thing I miss is the extra luggage space for touring. For practicality the 4.0 counters with front axle lift. I prefer the much tighter fit of the CGT buckets but the 918 buckets provide more lateral support for the shoulders.
When I had the GT4 I did a comparison on the same road circuit with a 997.1 RS that I considered changing to. That was a much closer call. If anyone is interested I can post a detailed review I did for my car mates at the time.
I sold it and bought a 997 RS 4.0. The 4.0 is far more thrilling at any speed. It makes a much more authentic, musical, loud and exciting sound and feels so much more alive: more inertia-free; more on its toes; it writhes more out of a corner under full power; has more progressive breakaway; more understeer to manage in hairpins; a more challenging gearshift (heavier, notchier and lighter flywheel); and steering that feels mechanically connected and provides detailed feedback.
I still think of the GT4 fondly, it was a great car, but the only thing I miss is the extra luggage space for touring. For practicality the 4.0 counters with front axle lift. I prefer the much tighter fit of the CGT buckets but the 918 buckets provide more lateral support for the shoulders.
When I had the GT4 I did a comparison on the same road circuit with a 997.1 RS that I considered changing to. That was a much closer call. If anyone is interested I can post a detailed review I did for my car mates at the time.
Would be fun to read your comparison with the 997.1 RS. I think that is the closer comparison, or at least it would be for me. GT4 vs 997 RS 4.0? Much as I loved my GT4, that would be no contest. Wouldn't be much of one between 997 RS 3.8, either. But stock 997.1 RS 3.6 vs stock GT4? Now that would be a bit trickier...
08-05-2018 | 03:01 PM
#23
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 200
Likes: 1
The GT4 vs 997.1 RS comparison was on a short road circuit up the mountainside from Monaco. The dealer selling the RS told me the road beforehand so I drove it first in my GT4, then collected the RS to try. The dealer was with me but let me go as hard as I wanted. Cool guy, even turning the TC off without being asked. Here's what I wrote straight afterwards but bear in mind that it was only about a 20 minute circuit and included traffic in parts:
In both feedback [in the dry only] and precision the RS feels very similar to the GT4. The steering in the RS is a little lighter [lighter than the RS 4.0's too], which I prefer. I could feel the limits of the RS more easily but think this was just because the limits of the RS on six year old Pirelli Corsa Systems were reached much more easily than those of the GT4 on new Dunlop Sport Maxxs.
What I enjoyed most in the RS was that its handling felt more throttle adjustable (and more controllable than I remember my old 996.1 GT3 being) but again I think this was down to the grip of the tyres and also the suspension setup. Ride was similarly good in both.
I expected the RS to have a more thrilling top end but throughout the range both cars seemed evenly matched [I didn't have a lot of opportunity to explore the redline in the RS though]. The mid-range and top end of the RS has a more complex, varied and musical sound, while the GT4 is more visceral: even louder and harder edged. The RS has a characterful hard edged vibration under deceleration in the midrange and more low rev character reminiscent of old-school air-cooled warble but to my surprise (as with a 2.7 RS I drove recently) it is very soft in feel and volume. The GT4 might not have the warble at low revs but with the windows down and exhaust button pressed the burble and crackle provides similar entertainment.
The gearbox is a clear win to the GT4, which has a much shorter, more precise, less notchy action [though by the time I sold it it had loosened up to become so slick it felt half way to a PDK]. The change from 2nd to 3rd in particular is much quicker and easier. Clutch weight in each car is equivalent but the GT4 is more linear in take-up and easier to judge though this could be because of less wear. The gearing in both seemed similar but I would prefer 2nd to be lower, 3rd closer, 4th and 5th lowered accordingly, and a bigger gap to an unchanged 6th. Dropping into first in hairpins may provide a valid use for the impressively instant auto throttle blip in the GT4.
The GT4 has a firmer brake pedal, particularly at the top, giving its steel brakes more of the feel of a race setup than the as-new ceramics in the RS. Both have great feel.
Both cars look superb and I think — without having had a good look at an RS 4.0 — that the 997.1 RS is clearly the best looking GT3 RS and my favourite looking 911, new or old. I prefer the RS from the rear, the GT4 from the side and like them equally from the front. Inside I prefer the classic 911 styling of the dash in the RS. I like the view out of the GT4’s.
The more upright A pillars, lower waistline and higher glass house of the RS make it feel more classic and easier to place on the road but in the GT4 you feel lower and more securely cocooned and the view of the more curvaceous front wings is sexier. I can get the wheel slightly closer in the GT4, which I prefer, but the difference is insignificant. The RS seats grip tighter but the GT4’s offer a little more lateral support to the shoulders. They are equally very comfortable but the RS is a bit easier to get in and out of.
Overall I was surprised how similar the two cars are. For me the most significant driving difference was the throttle adjustability of the RS but on the way home in the GT4 we stopped at a Porsche dealership and had the rear ARB adjusted from medium to stiff. I barely had a chance to test it in the remainder of the trip but could feel that the slight stodge of understeer was gone, the steering felt slightly lighter as a result, and the tail was much more willing to engage.
If the RS was still at last year's [2014] price, the same as the GT4 on road, I would probably find its classic status hard to resist but at less than half the average current [2015] price of a 997.1 RS the GT4 really is a bargain when it can match an all time great for driving pleasure and is more practical. The ARB adjustment is essential though.
In both feedback [in the dry only] and precision the RS feels very similar to the GT4. The steering in the RS is a little lighter [lighter than the RS 4.0's too], which I prefer. I could feel the limits of the RS more easily but think this was just because the limits of the RS on six year old Pirelli Corsa Systems were reached much more easily than those of the GT4 on new Dunlop Sport Maxxs.
What I enjoyed most in the RS was that its handling felt more throttle adjustable (and more controllable than I remember my old 996.1 GT3 being) but again I think this was down to the grip of the tyres and also the suspension setup. Ride was similarly good in both.
I expected the RS to have a more thrilling top end but throughout the range both cars seemed evenly matched [I didn't have a lot of opportunity to explore the redline in the RS though]. The mid-range and top end of the RS has a more complex, varied and musical sound, while the GT4 is more visceral: even louder and harder edged. The RS has a characterful hard edged vibration under deceleration in the midrange and more low rev character reminiscent of old-school air-cooled warble but to my surprise (as with a 2.7 RS I drove recently) it is very soft in feel and volume. The GT4 might not have the warble at low revs but with the windows down and exhaust button pressed the burble and crackle provides similar entertainment.
The gearbox is a clear win to the GT4, which has a much shorter, more precise, less notchy action [though by the time I sold it it had loosened up to become so slick it felt half way to a PDK]. The change from 2nd to 3rd in particular is much quicker and easier. Clutch weight in each car is equivalent but the GT4 is more linear in take-up and easier to judge though this could be because of less wear. The gearing in both seemed similar but I would prefer 2nd to be lower, 3rd closer, 4th and 5th lowered accordingly, and a bigger gap to an unchanged 6th. Dropping into first in hairpins may provide a valid use for the impressively instant auto throttle blip in the GT4.
The GT4 has a firmer brake pedal, particularly at the top, giving its steel brakes more of the feel of a race setup than the as-new ceramics in the RS. Both have great feel.
Both cars look superb and I think — without having had a good look at an RS 4.0 — that the 997.1 RS is clearly the best looking GT3 RS and my favourite looking 911, new or old. I prefer the RS from the rear, the GT4 from the side and like them equally from the front. Inside I prefer the classic 911 styling of the dash in the RS. I like the view out of the GT4’s.
The more upright A pillars, lower waistline and higher glass house of the RS make it feel more classic and easier to place on the road but in the GT4 you feel lower and more securely cocooned and the view of the more curvaceous front wings is sexier. I can get the wheel slightly closer in the GT4, which I prefer, but the difference is insignificant. The RS seats grip tighter but the GT4’s offer a little more lateral support to the shoulders. They are equally very comfortable but the RS is a bit easier to get in and out of.
Overall I was surprised how similar the two cars are. For me the most significant driving difference was the throttle adjustability of the RS but on the way home in the GT4 we stopped at a Porsche dealership and had the rear ARB adjusted from medium to stiff. I barely had a chance to test it in the remainder of the trip but could feel that the slight stodge of understeer was gone, the steering felt slightly lighter as a result, and the tail was much more willing to engage.
If the RS was still at last year's [2014] price, the same as the GT4 on road, I would probably find its classic status hard to resist but at less than half the average current [2015] price of a 997.1 RS the GT4 really is a bargain when it can match an all time great for driving pleasure and is more practical. The ARB adjustment is essential though.
08-05-2018 | 03:05 PM
#24
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From: ^ The Bay Bridge
^ We agree on something else: The 997.1 RS is the best looking of the three....and I'd put the 997.1 GT3 right next to it. So would the guy who designed both generations, it turns out. The 997.1 GT3 was simply great looking. But few Porsches of any year can match the 997 RS 4.0 for extreme driving pleasure—whether you're going slow or quickly.
08-05-2018 | 03:13 PM
#25
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 200
Likes: 1
Agree with the 997.1 GT3 looks.
I'm keen to see at the next tyre change if the PS4S instead of Cup 2 adds to the fun of the RS 4.0 by making it throttle adjustable at saner speeds like the hard-old-tyred 997.1 RS was. I'd love to try a Euro 964 RS too.
I'm keen to see at the next tyre change if the PS4S instead of Cup 2 adds to the fun of the RS 4.0 by making it throttle adjustable at saner speeds like the hard-old-tyred 997.1 RS was. I'd love to try a Euro 964 RS too.
08-05-2018 | 03:51 PM
#26
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From: ^ The Bay Bridge
08-05-2018 | 03:56 PM
#27
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Joined: Mar 2012
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From: SoCal
to each their own... of course "GT4 is better"
but, i sold my GT4 after 3 mo and my 997RS has been in the garage longer than any car I've ever owned.
keeper. especially with all the chassis work and 12k dampers on it lol.
but, i sold my GT4 after 3 mo and my 997RS has been in the garage longer than any car I've ever owned.
keeper. especially with all the chassis work and 12k dampers on it lol.
08-05-2018 | 04:07 PM
#28
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 200
Likes: 1
I had a 911SC, which I liked, changed to a 996.1 GT3 and liked it much more and now like the RS 4.0 much more again so I have wondered how I would find going back in time to a 964 RS but have read glowing reports of the feedback and fun at road speeds. The 964 RS 3.8 has always been a dream that just stays out of reach. What are your relative impressions of 964 RS 3.6 vs 3.8 vs RS 4.0?
08-05-2018 | 05:46 PM
#29
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From: ^ The Bay Bridge
Take the 964 estimation with a grain or three of salt, as seat time in those two is limited vs thousands of miles in the 997 and 996.
08-06-2018 | 12:41 AM
#30
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,641
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From: driving
Super enjoyable thread. Love reading the opinions and reviews of gents who have had seat time in many variants! These types of comments can save a guy with only three Porsches under his belt a lot of money! Please carry on...