What will a 20% tariff do to the cost of the new gt4 and spyder?
06-28-2018, 12:20 AM
#16
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The German automakers have already started they can't survive and are pressuring the EU to drop tariffs on American vehicles imported into Europe Merkel can't block this, as she would be toast. The German economy is powered by the auto industry. EU growth is already slow and would go into recession as American tariffs take hold. My bet right now is the EU blinks and tariffs by both sides are greatly reduced.
06-29-2018, 01:15 AM
#18
Burning Brakes
This is an odd question, maybe I'm missing something. Does it actually matter where the car is manufactured? If it's a plant owned by Porsche, built by Porsche, maintained by Porsche to build cars to the same specifications they engineer and deliver in Germany, why should we expect them to be any different at all?
It just seems like it's not a practical strategy for Porsche, unless they're actively trying to expand in the US market, independent of any of this tariff talk. I would imagine these tariffs would have to be essentially set in stone for many years to force their hand to this degree to consider manufacturing cars in the US, unless they already have an initiative to do so. I'm not going to pretend to guess and I have done zero research on the topic, but I think it's a huge stretch to think any of this would come to that unless it was somehow confirmed to be long-term.
It just seems like it's not a practical strategy for Porsche, unless they're actively trying to expand in the US market, independent of any of this tariff talk. I would imagine these tariffs would have to be essentially set in stone for many years to force their hand to this degree to consider manufacturing cars in the US, unless they already have an initiative to do so. I'm not going to pretend to guess and I have done zero research on the topic, but I think it's a huge stretch to think any of this would come to that unless it was somehow confirmed to be long-term.
06-29-2018, 09:31 AM
#19
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/20/germ...os-report.html
06-29-2018, 12:49 PM
#20
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Really? Which ones? How did they survive when the EUR was stronger by 25-30 percent than it is now, because I haven't noticed any European manufacturers dropping their US market prices by that much since then. Import taxes, even when they would be passed onto consumers completely, would not mean sales go to zero anyway and the US market is gigantic but still a slice of the pie and not the whole pie. Global manufacturers can survive much longer than any politician who tanks the economy in an effort to score short term political points.
The fact that even US car manufacturers are against the idea of said tariffs goes to show what a spectacularly bad idea it is. It's a pity that consulting with people who know how this stuff works before creating policies has gone out of fashion.
I wouldn't say anything has "worked". This proposal from Merkel can almost be called trolling, throwing the "no tarrifs!" thing right back in the face of people who actually quite like having their pick-up truck market protected by a 25% tax wall. Given the current situation, dropping all automotive tariffs would very likely be a net win for those who export to the US.
The fact that even US car manufacturers are against the idea of said tariffs goes to show what a spectacularly bad idea it is. It's a pity that consulting with people who know how this stuff works before creating policies has gone out of fashion.
It seems to have worked. Trump threatened to add a 20% tariff, and now Merkel is pushing for the EU to drop the 10% tariff on cars from the US. It is not without other requested adjustments and compensations though.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/20/germ...os-report.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/20/germ...os-report.html
07-03-2018, 02:31 PM
#22
The German automakers have already started they can't survive and are pressuring the EU to drop tariffs on American vehicles imported into Europe Merkel can't block this, as she would be toast. The German economy is powered by the auto industry. EU growth is already slow and would go into recession as American tariffs take hold. My bet right now is the EU blinks and tariffs by both sides are greatly reduced.
They export 40,000 motorcycles a year to the EU and the big growth driver for HD is no longer in the U.S.
Until they get manufacturing facilities up and running overseas (roughly 18 months) they will wind up "eating" $90 - $100 million annually in this tariff.
I never thought that I'd see an American President **** all over an American icon like Harley Davidson, but Trump is one dumb SOB.
If this is "winning".... I cant wait to see what losing looks like.
07-03-2018, 03:14 PM
#23
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While I agree that EU tarrif’s will hurt the US I do think that US tarrifs will have a bigger impact on the EU and I can’t imagine the EU will let this go on for very long without having serious economic impact. US can take the Tarrifs collected on Euro imports and help defray some of the cost that Harley will endure but there’s no way the Tarrifs that EU applies to Harley will offset the losses by the German auto manufacturers.
I agree its a silly game of chicken and someone will flinch, the question is who. I’m thinking with time the EU will come around and get rid of that 6% tarriff they have on Harley Motorcycles and other products that US produces. I also think the bigger picture is forcing the EU to pay for their share of the UN Defense costs, this tarriff crap is just a way to get there.
I’m thinking this thread needs to get moved to the PC Forum
I agree its a silly game of chicken and someone will flinch, the question is who. I’m thinking with time the EU will come around and get rid of that 6% tarriff they have on Harley Motorcycles and other products that US produces. I also think the bigger picture is forcing the EU to pay for their share of the UN Defense costs, this tarriff crap is just a way to get there.
I’m thinking this thread needs to get moved to the PC Forum
07-03-2018, 03:33 PM
#24
http://theconversation.com/george-w-...dnt-work-92904
Bush tried steel tariffs back in early 2002.
They didnt work. They were pulled 21 months later because they cost the U.S. manufacturing sector 200,000 jobs.
Bush tried steel tariffs back in early 2002.
They didnt work. They were pulled 21 months later because they cost the U.S. manufacturing sector 200,000 jobs.
07-03-2018, 03:57 PM
#25
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I guess we’ll have to wait and see. I guess the same could be said about the tarriff that Europe places on US products.
07-04-2018, 03:09 AM
#26
Rennlist Member
I agree its a silly game of chicken and someone will flinch, the question is who. I’m thinking with time the EU will come around and get rid of that 6% tarriff they have on Harley Motorcycles and other products that US produces. I also think the bigger picture is forcing the EU to pay for their share of the UN Defense costs, this tarriff crap is just a way to get there.
I think we've seen enough already to put the "there is a grand cunning plan" thing to bed. It's more along the lines of don't attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity. The Al tariffs alone make that pretty clear. Cutting off your nose to spite the face is not a logical strategy.
Anyway, maybe Europeans will at least be able to stop complaining how cheap European cars are in the US if this goes through.
07-04-2018, 07:33 AM
#27
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Diablo Dude I suggest you stick to the topic and not provide us your political views please. Remember 50% of us on the forum and I suspect even more in this group voted for and like Trump.
07-04-2018, 07:38 AM
#28
Never a good convo with politics. Look at it like this ......either you pay a 20% increase because of the tax, or status quo. Never worry about what you can’t control, and be prepared for the outcome. We’re all blessed to own these cars ...it’s a high class problem to have. Happy 4th.
07-04-2018, 12:33 PM
#29
I'm sorry that the FACTS dont support your politics.
But that was never my point in my post above.
But here.... I'll try and make it even more clear for you than I did in my post about Harley Davidson.
Tariffs are a tax.
They have been proven not to work.
Ever hear of the Smoot-Harley Tariff Act of 1930?
They raise prices, which can raise the inflation rate, which then raises the Federal Reserve's response to tighten monetary policy, which leads to higher interest rates, which cuts economic growth, which leads to job losses.
Moreover, the US actually has a trade SURPLUS with the EU if "services" are factored alongside goods into the equation.
Our own Department of Commerce shows us this for 2017. We had a $153 Billion trade deficit with the EU in goods,
while we had a $167 Billion surplus in services and primary income to the EU. Thus, a current account SURPLUS of $14 BILLION.
This is Basic Econ. 101.
Has nothing to do with politics.
Last edited by Diablo Dude; 07-04-2018 at 01:03 PM.
07-04-2018, 01:22 PM
#30
Three Wheelin'
I'm sorry that the FACTS dont support your politics.
But that was never my point in my post above.
But here.... I'll try and make it even more clear for you than I did in my post about Harley Davidson.
Tariffs are a tax.
They have been proven not to work. They raise prices, which can raise the inflation rate, which then raises the Federal Reserve's response to tighten monetary policy, which leads to higher interest rates, which cuts economic growth, which leads to job losses.
This is Basic Econ. 101.
Has nothing to do with politics.
But that was never my point in my post above.
But here.... I'll try and make it even more clear for you than I did in my post about Harley Davidson.
Tariffs are a tax.
They have been proven not to work. They raise prices, which can raise the inflation rate, which then raises the Federal Reserve's response to tighten monetary policy, which leads to higher interest rates, which cuts economic growth, which leads to job losses.
This is Basic Econ. 101.
Has nothing to do with politics.
Since even domestic cars are assembled with primarily foreign components, it's not clear that if the tariffs go forward that American cars wouldn't also see price increases as well. Heck, even if there isn't a tariff on imported components, American auto manufacturers would likely raise prices just because they can given the taxes on their competition here and to offset new tariffs for exports to say China. Ultimately I think tariffs will impact the entire industry, cars will cost more, all of them, and we as the consumer will have to "downgrade" to compensate since those tariffs wont ever come back to consumers' wallets. More 718 base and S purchases, less demand for GT4/Spyders, even longer financing deals (would we be financing tariffs?). Maybe European delivery will become the new standard though if the new tariffs continues to ignore used cars as the current one does today.