GT4 Clubsport Tires
10-07-2019, 10:23 PM
#16
Instructor
Thread Starter
I know I'm not driving at 9/10 every time out, and was feeling the tires going away for awhile, I did realize I was milking the fronts in particular to seek out a bit more time. When they went away, it was rather dramatic loss of grip. After recommendations from a shop I trust I looked into Yokes, but they never got back. I guess buying one set does not get their attention! So back to N2's for what is remaining for the season, now the challenge may be getting enough temp in the tires if it's 60 out! Actually, last set were s8L fronts, a bit more wear in these from the N2's from what I understand. Thanks for the comments, learning this stuff.
10-07-2019, 10:41 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
I know I'm not driving at 9/10 every time out, and was feeling the tires going away for awhile, I did realize I was milking the fronts in particular to seek out a bit more time. When they went away, it was rather dramatic loss of grip. After recommendations from a shop I trust I looked into Yokes, but they never got back. I guess buying one set does not get their attention! So back to N2's for what is remaining for the season, now the challenge may be getting enough temp in the tires if it's 60 out! Actually, last set were s8L fronts, a bit more wear in these from the N2's from what I understand. Thanks for the comments, learning this stuff.
10-07-2019, 10:47 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
No comparison really. For track day use I'd go Hankooks all day.
Pirelli DHs have such a narrow optimal window that whatever advantage you're paying for will be used up within the first 5 laps. You HAVE to treat them as a competition tire. The softer sidewall also tends to get folks to baby the initial laps meaning they're still under-driving when the tires peak.
Hankook C52s (and there's a new compound C53 coming out) has a flatter degradation and just lasts longer. I can't possibly imagine a Pirelli DH surviving the mileage we pulled in Dubai or Barcelona 24.
And who cares about half a second when you're focused on you vs. your own progress? On a multi-class open-spec trackday laptimes are just white noise.
Pirelli DHs have such a narrow optimal window that whatever advantage you're paying for will be used up within the first 5 laps. You HAVE to treat them as a competition tire. The softer sidewall also tends to get folks to baby the initial laps meaning they're still under-driving when the tires peak.
Hankook C52s (and there's a new compound C53 coming out) has a flatter degradation and just lasts longer. I can't possibly imagine a Pirelli DH surviving the mileage we pulled in Dubai or Barcelona 24.
And who cares about half a second when you're focused on you vs. your own progress? On a multi-class open-spec trackday laptimes are just white noise.
10-08-2019, 10:06 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by 911therapy
How is the sizing with the hankook c52's? Trying to figure out what size to run on cayman clubsport?
280/680R18 rears
10-18-2019, 01:25 PM
#21
You got 10 club days out of a set of Michelin N2's slicks??? I dont know how you kept the car on track. I get 6-8 heat cycles at most out of pirelli DH's. usually one full track day and part of another.
but, the pirelli DH scrubs work great for the money. Just dont plan to set your best laptimes and plan for them to last 6-8 heat cycles...Unless you dont mind driving on ice
but, the pirelli DH scrubs work great for the money. Just dont plan to set your best laptimes and plan for them to last 6-8 heat cycles...Unless you dont mind driving on ice
My pirellis have seen up to 12 cycles (I’d call it car control practice in the last six) as meaningful times and car behavior are not available at this level of grip. Equally important is what heat and PSI levels are you reaching. Not a rhetorical question, just a perspective.
Have tried Hankook slicks recently and they were solid and similar grip. Only ran one session so no comment yet on longevity.
09-10-2020, 02:03 PM
#22
Agree w above. After 6 heat cycles grip falls off. Cording slicks is not a good idea. Failure on track can range from a flat and slow trip to pit to ripping out your undercarriage to a high speed crash if inna fast corner.
My pirellis have seen up to 12 cycles (I’d call it car control practice in the last six) as meaningful times and car behavior are not available at this level of grip. Equally important is what heat and PSI levels are you reaching. Not a rhetorical question, just a perspective.
Have tried Hankook slicks recently and they were solid and similar grip. Only ran one session so no comment yet on longevity.
My pirellis have seen up to 12 cycles (I’d call it car control practice in the last six) as meaningful times and car behavior are not available at this level of grip. Equally important is what heat and PSI levels are you reaching. Not a rhetorical question, just a perspective.
Have tried Hankook slicks recently and they were solid and similar grip. Only ran one session so no comment yet on longevity.
09-11-2020, 05:26 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
I have run a couple of sets hankooks on my Clubsport. They are about 1s slower on a 1.30 tracktime than Michelin. They last much longer, about 2 days 220km on michelins 600km on hankooks. I replaced them because of loss of grip, not That they were worn out. They don't need as much camber as michelins.
09-12-2020, 02:04 AM
#24
I have run a couple of sets hankooks on my Clubsport. They are about 1s slower on a 1.30 tracktime than Michelin. They last much longer, about 2 days 220km on michelins 600km on hankooks. I replaced them because of loss of grip, not That they were worn out. They don't need as much camber as michelins.
09-12-2020, 10:21 AM
#25
09-14-2020, 08:33 AM
#26
Update
yes. Done serval races and tests since this post in and also run in WRL (which runs street versions of all these tire brands) so comments based on lots of recent tire types and brands tested. And for the record all below is one mans opinion. So take it for what it’s worth.
So, Hankook grip is very very good, slightly less to start than Pirelli but IMO the deg/fall off is much more consistent and does not fall off a cliff after 1-2 heat cycles. Pirelli’s seem to be super heat cycle sensitive
That said I have also run the new Michelin slicks at COTA MSRH and MSRC. Unreal grip and better than both of the above for consistency. IMO the Michelin’s have the best out right grip evidenced by personal bests at all three tracks and they perform at a very high level through 2-3 hours. After that they fall off from peak like the others but are closer to original grip. Testing Yokohama’s for the upcoming Porsche Trophy race at COTA. So will report on those.
Grip by the hour IMO from hour 1-4 is feels as follows
Pirelli. 100%/85%/80%/75%
Hankooks. 100%/90/90/85
Mixhelins 100/95/90/87
Above is for illustrative purposes of the seat of the pants feel. Actual fall off is much less % based on actual lap times but trying to illustrate the feel of the diffs.
Initial grip
Michelin BEST by nearly 1.4 second at COTA and a full second at MSRH, which means I didn’t press hard enough at cota. Should have been 2 or more
Pirelli Better l, but about .5 delta slower to above initially session 1
Hankooks very good about 1-1.4 delta to Michelin. Which doesn’t sound like much to some but is a ton IMO.
All of above are same day/weekend w similar track temps conditions etc. granted the track rubber in day 2 plays a factor.
IMO best longevity and grip for the dollar would be the Michelin’s. Looking forward to trying slick Yokohama’s.
Also of note the Michelins and Hankooks have stiffer side walls which I like given how I prefer to set the car up. Gives me more confidence that when The car breaks grip, how the tire will react/feel as I try to gather it up with balance and steering correction.
Last comment, I have had had two Pirelli’s blow out in 2019 and this was a known issue in 2019 series causing the Trophy series to move to Yoko. My friend who runs Pirelli’s as prefenece has not experienced this in 2020 so likely is corrected. Could keep going about all this but time for coffee.....
So, Hankook grip is very very good, slightly less to start than Pirelli but IMO the deg/fall off is much more consistent and does not fall off a cliff after 1-2 heat cycles. Pirelli’s seem to be super heat cycle sensitive
That said I have also run the new Michelin slicks at COTA MSRH and MSRC. Unreal grip and better than both of the above for consistency. IMO the Michelin’s have the best out right grip evidenced by personal bests at all three tracks and they perform at a very high level through 2-3 hours. After that they fall off from peak like the others but are closer to original grip. Testing Yokohama’s for the upcoming Porsche Trophy race at COTA. So will report on those.
Grip by the hour IMO from hour 1-4 is feels as follows
Pirelli. 100%/85%/80%/75%
Hankooks. 100%/90/90/85
Mixhelins 100/95/90/87
Above is for illustrative purposes of the seat of the pants feel. Actual fall off is much less % based on actual lap times but trying to illustrate the feel of the diffs.
Initial grip
Michelin BEST by nearly 1.4 second at COTA and a full second at MSRH, which means I didn’t press hard enough at cota. Should have been 2 or more
Pirelli Better l, but about .5 delta slower to above initially session 1
Hankooks very good about 1-1.4 delta to Michelin. Which doesn’t sound like much to some but is a ton IMO.
All of above are same day/weekend w similar track temps conditions etc. granted the track rubber in day 2 plays a factor.
IMO best longevity and grip for the dollar would be the Michelin’s. Looking forward to trying slick Yokohama’s.
Also of note the Michelins and Hankooks have stiffer side walls which I like given how I prefer to set the car up. Gives me more confidence that when The car breaks grip, how the tire will react/feel as I try to gather it up with balance and steering correction.
Last comment, I have had had two Pirelli’s blow out in 2019 and this was a known issue in 2019 series causing the Trophy series to move to Yoko. My friend who runs Pirelli’s as prefenece has not experienced this in 2020 so likely is corrected. Could keep going about all this but time for coffee.....
Last edited by TurboDogue; 09-14-2020 at 08:39 AM.
09-14-2020, 09:31 AM
#27
Rennlist Member
TurboDogue- Pirelli replaced the DH with the DHB for 2020. https://sportscar365.com/sro/sro-ame...elli-dhe-tire/
Wondering which Pirelli your comparison is based on. Did you change camber for the Michelins?
Wondering which Pirelli your comparison is based on. Did you change camber for the Michelins?
Last edited by scott40; 09-14-2020 at 12:08 PM.
09-14-2020, 10:43 AM
#28
yes. Done serval races and tests since this post in and also run in WRL (which runs street versions of all these tire brands) so comments based on lots of recent tire types and brands tested. And for the record all below is one mans opinion. So take it for what it’s worth.
So, Hankook grip is very very good, slightly less to start than Pirelli but IMO the deg/fall off is much more consistent and does not fall off a cliff after 1-2 heat cycles. Pirelli’s seem to be super heat cycle sensitive
That said I have also run the new Michelin slicks at COTA MSRH and MSRC. Unreal grip and better than both of the above for consistency. IMO the Michelin’s have the best out right grip evidenced by personal bests at all three tracks and they perform at a very high level through 2-3 hours. After that they fall off from peak like the others but are closer to original grip. Testing Yokohama’s for the upcoming Porsche Trophy race at COTA. So will report on those.
Grip by the hour IMO from hour 1-4 is feels as follows
Pirelli. 100%/85%/80%/75%
Hankooks. 100%/90/90/85
Mixhelins 100/95/90/87
Above is for illustrative purposes of the seat of the pants feel. Actual fall off is much less % based on actual lap times but trying to illustrate the feel of the diffs.
Initial grip
Michelin BEST by nearly 1.4 second at COTA and a full second at MSRH, which means I didn’t press hard enough at cota. Should have been 2 or more
Pirelli Better l, but about .5 delta slower to above initially session 1
Hankooks very good about 1-1.4 delta to Michelin. Which doesn’t sound like much to some but is a ton IMO.
All of above are same day/weekend w similar track temps conditions etc. granted the track rubber in day 2 plays a factor.
IMO best longevity and grip for the dollar would be the Michelin’s. Looking forward to trying slick Yokohama’s.
Also of note the Michelins and Hankooks have stiffer side walls which I like given how I prefer to set the car up. Gives me more confidence that when The car breaks grip, how the tire will react/feel as I try to gather it up with balance and steering correction.
Last comment, I have had had two Pirelli’s blow out in 2019 and this was a known issue in 2019 series causing the Trophy series to move to Yoko. My friend who runs Pirelli’s as prefenece has not experienced this in 2020 so likely is corrected. Could keep going about all this but time for coffee.....
So, Hankook grip is very very good, slightly less to start than Pirelli but IMO the deg/fall off is much more consistent and does not fall off a cliff after 1-2 heat cycles. Pirelli’s seem to be super heat cycle sensitive
That said I have also run the new Michelin slicks at COTA MSRH and MSRC. Unreal grip and better than both of the above for consistency. IMO the Michelin’s have the best out right grip evidenced by personal bests at all three tracks and they perform at a very high level through 2-3 hours. After that they fall off from peak like the others but are closer to original grip. Testing Yokohama’s for the upcoming Porsche Trophy race at COTA. So will report on those.
Grip by the hour IMO from hour 1-4 is feels as follows
Pirelli. 100%/85%/80%/75%
Hankooks. 100%/90/90/85
Mixhelins 100/95/90/87
Above is for illustrative purposes of the seat of the pants feel. Actual fall off is much less % based on actual lap times but trying to illustrate the feel of the diffs.
Initial grip
Michelin BEST by nearly 1.4 second at COTA and a full second at MSRH, which means I didn’t press hard enough at cota. Should have been 2 or more
Pirelli Better l, but about .5 delta slower to above initially session 1
Hankooks very good about 1-1.4 delta to Michelin. Which doesn’t sound like much to some but is a ton IMO.
All of above are same day/weekend w similar track temps conditions etc. granted the track rubber in day 2 plays a factor.
IMO best longevity and grip for the dollar would be the Michelin’s. Looking forward to trying slick Yokohama’s.
Also of note the Michelins and Hankooks have stiffer side walls which I like given how I prefer to set the car up. Gives me more confidence that when The car breaks grip, how the tire will react/feel as I try to gather it up with balance and steering correction.
Last comment, I have had had two Pirelli’s blow out in 2019 and this was a known issue in 2019 series causing the Trophy series to move to Yoko. My friend who runs Pirelli’s as prefenece has not experienced this in 2020 so likely is corrected. Could keep going about all this but time for coffee.....
09-14-2020, 02:42 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
I hated when we had to run Michelin in PCA- After the 1st heat cycle they fell off very dramatically
Pirelli's might be a couple of 10ths slower but dont fall of as bad
Pirelli's might be a couple of 10ths slower but dont fall of as bad
09-21-2020, 04:31 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
yes. Done serval races and tests since this post in and also run in WRL (which runs street versions of all these tire brands) so comments based on lots of recent tire types and brands tested. And for the record all below is one mans opinion. So take it for what it’s worth.
So, Hankook grip is very very good, slightly less to start than Pirelli but IMO the deg/fall off is much more consistent and does not fall off a cliff after 1-2 heat cycles. Pirelli’s seem to be super heat cycle sensitive
That said I have also run the new Michelin slicks at COTA MSRH and MSRC. Unreal grip and better than both of the above for consistency. IMO the Michelin’s have the best out right grip evidenced by personal bests at all three tracks and they perform at a very high level through 2-3 hours. After that they fall off from peak like the others but are closer to original grip. Testing Yokohama’s for the upcoming Porsche Trophy race at COTA. So will report on those.
Grip by the hour IMO from hour 1-4 is feels as follows
Pirelli. 100%/85%/80%/75%
Hankooks. 100%/90/90/85
Mixhelins 100/95/90/87
Above is for illustrative purposes of the seat of the pants feel. Actual fall off is much less % based on actual lap times but trying to illustrate the feel of the diffs.
Initial grip
Michelin BEST by nearly 1.4 second at COTA and a full second at MSRH, which means I didn’t press hard enough at cota. Should have been 2 or more
Pirelli Better l, but about .5 delta slower to above initially session 1
Hankooks very good about 1-1.4 delta to Michelin. Which doesn’t sound like much to some but is a ton IMO.
All of above are same day/weekend w similar track temps conditions etc. granted the track rubber in day 2 plays a factor.
IMO best longevity and grip for the dollar would be the Michelin’s. Looking forward to trying slick Yokohama’s.
Also of note the Michelins and Hankooks have stiffer side walls which I like given how I prefer to set the car up. Gives me more confidence that when The car breaks grip, how the tire will react/feel as I try to gather it up with balance and steering correction.
Last comment, I have had had two Pirelli’s blow out in 2019 and this was a known issue in 2019 series causing the Trophy series to move to Yoko. My friend who runs Pirelli’s as prefenece has not experienced this in 2020 so likely is corrected. Could keep going about all this but time for coffee.....
So, Hankook grip is very very good, slightly less to start than Pirelli but IMO the deg/fall off is much more consistent and does not fall off a cliff after 1-2 heat cycles. Pirelli’s seem to be super heat cycle sensitive
That said I have also run the new Michelin slicks at COTA MSRH and MSRC. Unreal grip and better than both of the above for consistency. IMO the Michelin’s have the best out right grip evidenced by personal bests at all three tracks and they perform at a very high level through 2-3 hours. After that they fall off from peak like the others but are closer to original grip. Testing Yokohama’s for the upcoming Porsche Trophy race at COTA. So will report on those.
Grip by the hour IMO from hour 1-4 is feels as follows
Pirelli. 100%/85%/80%/75%
Hankooks. 100%/90/90/85
Mixhelins 100/95/90/87
Above is for illustrative purposes of the seat of the pants feel. Actual fall off is much less % based on actual lap times but trying to illustrate the feel of the diffs.
Initial grip
Michelin BEST by nearly 1.4 second at COTA and a full second at MSRH, which means I didn’t press hard enough at cota. Should have been 2 or more
Pirelli Better l, but about .5 delta slower to above initially session 1
Hankooks very good about 1-1.4 delta to Michelin. Which doesn’t sound like much to some but is a ton IMO.
All of above are same day/weekend w similar track temps conditions etc. granted the track rubber in day 2 plays a factor.
IMO best longevity and grip for the dollar would be the Michelin’s. Looking forward to trying slick Yokohama’s.
Also of note the Michelins and Hankooks have stiffer side walls which I like given how I prefer to set the car up. Gives me more confidence that when The car breaks grip, how the tire will react/feel as I try to gather it up with balance and steering correction.
Last comment, I have had had two Pirelli’s blow out in 2019 and this was a known issue in 2019 series causing the Trophy series to move to Yoko. My friend who runs Pirelli’s as prefenece has not experienced this in 2020 so likely is corrected. Could keep going about all this but time for coffee.....