champignon

I'm the "proud owner" of a 2003 996 TT, and I like the car quite a bit, and I've test driven a lot of used Porsches, and I have to say, what is the buzz all about?

Buying a used Porsche is a real PITA, to use internet parlance. Porsche owners think the marque is really really special, but I am just somewhat lost here.

Full disclosure; I'm a long time BMW owner, I think that what they are making now in BMW-land is a bunch of garbage, other than maybe the M2, but BMW did have a long and heralded history as the maker of fine German sports cars/sedans/coupes, whatever, and certainly their past cars are not bad.

What is so special about Porches that one should search high and low for them, overpay for them on the basis of mileage and age, put up with all the highfalutin BS from the current (selling) owners, what the F is it that makes these cars so special to warrant the effort?

I'm mystified.

I have no interest in selling my one and only Porsche; it is a keeper, a good car, and I'm glad I bought it. Would I do it again? Not sure, probably not worth the effort.

I'm sure I am missing something. Please, someone out there, tell me the error of my ways. I remain totally mystified by the regard the marketplace seems to have for these cars, which have way more than their share of mechanical and other problems as they age, and which are not immune to what happens to older cars, just, it seems that it costs about 3X as much to keep them running as just about any other car (including other Germans).

Please enlighten me.

ejdoherty911

There is no substitute.

champignon

There's no substitute for anything. My dog is very special (to me), however I would have difficulty convincing most other dog owners that my dog is superior . . . .

There are a lot of cool cars out there; Porsches certainly are on the list. What would you rather have, a great example of a 15 year old Porsche 911, or a similarly great example of an E46 M3? I don't think the answer is a straightforward yes to the 911. And I can tell you with absolute certainty that it would be way easier to find a hassle free transaction for the M3, at a fair price, than it would be for the 911.

Similarly, I own a Z3M Coupe (Clownshoe car). These are rarer than just about any Porsche other than for a true exotic. I could buy one with 3 days research at a fair price and it would be a great car in good condition, and the negotiations would be very straightforward. For a Porsche? Not so much.

So again I ask, what is the fuss about, why are these things (Porsches) so special, and I haven't found an answer. If asked, I would tell serious car collectors/hobbyists, to give the Porsches a pass, not worth the hassles and aggravations, for what you get.

jderimig

Porsches are imperfect in just the right areas.

champignon

Just took my 996 TT out on a drive this morning, then let a houseguest/friend from France (who says he owned 3 different Porsches in the distant past) take it for a spin. It's a fabulous car, but it was so unbelievably difficult to find a good one.

I have looked at a lot of older, used, BMWs and Porsches. When you find an abused BMW, the owner apologizes for it, and generally says it was an owner before him who didn't take care of the car.

When you find an abused Porsche, the owner/seller says it is perfect, claims all sorts of maintenance and repairs that he can't document, tells you that the garage that did the PPI is wrong, asks way more than the car is worth, and you walk away in disgust, or politely excuse yourself.

Who has time for that? Not me.

tenaciousD

Well that's all just like, your opinion, man.

I'm not sure what you mean, actually. I sold my E46 M3 and bought a very nice 2006 Cayman. It was a normal car buying experience and the price I paid was reasonable and in line with what I wanted to spend. It took a couple weeks to find the right car, but that was part of the fun.

So, what's the problem? Maybe I just got lucky.

champignon

Caymans are way easier than 911s. I probably should have limited my observation(s) to 911s. I almost bought 2 different Cayman S's, and although there was a lot of BS with the 2nd one that I didn't buy, I don't think it was intentional on the part of the seller. He got told stuff by the former owner and believed it, he said, even though in the end he couldn't document it, and it turned out to not be true.

Mike Murphy

Champignon, you made a comparison to an E46 M3. I have a 99 996 C2. My buddy has an E46 M3. These 2 cars are comparable. Both around $17k.

What's so special is only that you can buy such an amazing car like these 2 for such a low price, compared to, say, anything else in the same price range. And where are you going to find another car that doesn't depreciate any longer, is fairly reliable, and is is such a good driving car? Either these Porsche's or BMWs...

Lest not forget that I think it's a bit silly that an E30 M3 goes for $100k...is that car really that special either?

The one thing about Porsche, though, is the history. The Porsche family comes from some of the most talented people designing cars in the world. They are some of the winningest brands in history. Some of the most reliable. Like Volvo for safety and Toyota for reliability, we have to have respect for those that appear at the top of their respective games.

champignon

There is a lot of connection to Adolph Hitler and the *****, also, and if we are going to tout the positives, the negatives need to be pointed out as well.

Of course, BMW is not immune to that sort of criticism, either.

There are a lot of really nice, fun to drive cars, with manual transmissions out there in the used marketplace right now, that are real deals. A few years from now, if people who want to drive manual performance cars are still allowed to do so, this will be looked at as a golden era for picking up this sort of car, which is going to disappear from the marketplace at any sort of reasonable price.

Mike Murphy

^^ I'm not sure Porsche had all that much control when Adolf approached Ferdinand and ask him to design the poeople's car.

Mike Murphy

Like which ones? Any cars I've looked at that have more than 2 seats will either suffer from massive depreciation, are more expensive, or aren't in the same class as a 911 or M3. I went through a bunch of car options before I bought this 911.

champignon

Massive depreciation comes with the territory, that's why these cars are a value.

I'm a huge fan of the now-defunct BMW 1-Series. A 135i in good condition and with reasonable mileage is a steal these days. They can be tuned and given upgraded suspensions for very little. As such they then become basically M cars.

There's an active resale market in the Z3Ms, coupes (Clownshoe) and Convertibles. The Z4Ms haven't been as well received however I've heard that their failings can be corrected with minor suspension changes, alignment, and tires.

And of course there is the 1M, which is kind of expensive.

Mike Murphy

The only car in this example that has more than 2 seats - the 135i - starting prices are $15k, which is 911 starting pricing. While I love the 135i and have driven my sister's 135i, some of the cars run hot and have some usual German issues, which are expensive. The tuning of this car does make it quite a comparable street car. But not sure it will hold up on the track, however.

I also looked at a BRZ/FRS/Toyota86. Problem is, 180 horsepower is not enough for me.

Maybe a well sorted Z350 would work. But again, the pricing creeps up to 911 996 pricing.

I had a Mini Cooper S and liked it, but it's FWD, and not very reliable. I looked at Lexus and other Japanese cars, but you either have to give up a stick shift, or have FWD.

Other than BMWs, are there other cars you like better than Porsche? Taking a look at a Ford GT350 is worth a serious consideration. Incredible car that I'd rank up there with a 911, but we'll have to see how well that car holds up over time.

JTT

In the two seater category, Hondas S2000 is big fun on low budget, but somewhat hard to find. I agree on the 1 series. I was very close to pulling the trigger on one a couple pf years back.

Mike Murphy

Agree on S2000. A top choice car and value for the money.