6 Pros and Cons of the Porsche 928
06-03-2024, 02:32 PM
#2
The comparable year 911 is the poor man's 928.
(with all due respect hear me out I'm just calling ***** and strikes - actively seeking thoughts/arguments against/other data points)
*the 928 is the only "sports" car ever to win "Car" of the year. the 911 was never in the running for Car of the year.
*the base 928 was more than twice the price of a base 911 and could be spec'd out to be multiples of a comparable 911.
*the 928 is 50/50 weight distribution. the 911 is 40/60
*the 928 pioneered the Weissach toe in/passive steering suspension system. the 911 over steers badly/often
*the 928 is a blank slate Porsche design. the 911 is the evolution of the volkswagon beetle.
*the 928 pioneered the use of the center console. the 911 did not come up with a unique single interior design feature
*the 928 was more horse power than the 911
*the 928 has a futuristic/iconic design and is more unique. the 911's cosmetic claim is its just more recognized.
*the 928 set two(2) Bonneville Salt Flats "production" care land speed records. The 911 set none.
*the 928 invented red brake calipers. the 911 did not.
*the 928 has unique Lamborghini Mura pop up headlights. the 911 has wrestled with head light designs and very badly flopped with the 996 flat egg headlight
*928 owners are collectors that appreciate form/design and function. 911 owners often buy based on the color of a car.
*total 928 production is a fraction of a single year of 911 sales making the 928 much rarer
*a 5 speed 928 is much rarer and lesser in total production numbers than any single year manual 911 sold
*Wolf Gang Mobius Anatole Lapine designed the 928.
*the 928 came with rear sun visors. the 911 did not
*the 928 pioneered the enclosed accordion front and rear bumper. the 911 doesn't have enclosed bumpers.
*the 928 invented and pioneered the map pocket. the 911 did not.
*the 928, due to a more rigorous bird cage has a envelope sunroof. the 911 has a full size sunroof with less structural roll bar protection.
*the 928 front and back seats are more spacious than a 911s
*the 928 has 45'' steel trap/bank vault doors. the 911 doors are shorter.
*the 928 has a higher power to weight ratio than the 911
*the 928 is faster than the 911 (and corvette) both off the line and definitely on top end speeds
*the 928 was made of solid billet steel with aluminum and galvanized steel panels that do not rust. Many 911 panels rust.
*the 928 turns heads and is appreciated by all generations - both men and women are mezmerized by its look. Where as there a jokes about 911 owners where the joke;s punch line connotes "the ***** in the 911"
*the 928's rear / hatch has a large/heavy curved shaped piece of glass. the 911s back glass is small and timid by comparison.
*the 928s rear quarter panel glass is shape/curved. the 911s passenger seat class is small triangle.
*Porsche never received bad press or was sued by 928 owners. Many high profile 911 owners died and prevailed in lawsuits against Porsche not to mention the 911 safety driving classes that Porsche had to bear the expense of offering.
*On an investment thesis basis, the 928 is the single biggest slam dunk value play across any Porsche, whereas the 911 is a next greater fool momentum play
(with all due respect hear me out I'm just calling ***** and strikes - actively seeking thoughts/arguments against/other data points)
*the 928 is the only "sports" car ever to win "Car" of the year. the 911 was never in the running for Car of the year.
*the base 928 was more than twice the price of a base 911 and could be spec'd out to be multiples of a comparable 911.
*the 928 is 50/50 weight distribution. the 911 is 40/60
*the 928 pioneered the Weissach toe in/passive steering suspension system. the 911 over steers badly/often
*the 928 is a blank slate Porsche design. the 911 is the evolution of the volkswagon beetle.
*the 928 pioneered the use of the center console. the 911 did not come up with a unique single interior design feature
*the 928 was more horse power than the 911
*the 928 has a futuristic/iconic design and is more unique. the 911's cosmetic claim is its just more recognized.
*the 928 set two(2) Bonneville Salt Flats "production" care land speed records. The 911 set none.
*the 928 invented red brake calipers. the 911 did not.
*the 928 has unique Lamborghini Mura pop up headlights. the 911 has wrestled with head light designs and very badly flopped with the 996 flat egg headlight
*928 owners are collectors that appreciate form/design and function. 911 owners often buy based on the color of a car.
*total 928 production is a fraction of a single year of 911 sales making the 928 much rarer
*a 5 speed 928 is much rarer and lesser in total production numbers than any single year manual 911 sold
*Wolf Gang Mobius Anatole Lapine designed the 928.
*the 928 came with rear sun visors. the 911 did not
*the 928 pioneered the enclosed accordion front and rear bumper. the 911 doesn't have enclosed bumpers.
*the 928 invented and pioneered the map pocket. the 911 did not.
*the 928, due to a more rigorous bird cage has a envelope sunroof. the 911 has a full size sunroof with less structural roll bar protection.
*the 928 front and back seats are more spacious than a 911s
*the 928 has 45'' steel trap/bank vault doors. the 911 doors are shorter.
*the 928 has a higher power to weight ratio than the 911
*the 928 is faster than the 911 (and corvette) both off the line and definitely on top end speeds
*the 928 was made of solid billet steel with aluminum and galvanized steel panels that do not rust. Many 911 panels rust.
*the 928 turns heads and is appreciated by all generations - both men and women are mezmerized by its look. Where as there a jokes about 911 owners where the joke;s punch line connotes "the ***** in the 911"
*the 928's rear / hatch has a large/heavy curved shaped piece of glass. the 911s back glass is small and timid by comparison.
*the 928s rear quarter panel glass is shape/curved. the 911s passenger seat class is small triangle.
*Porsche never received bad press or was sued by 928 owners. Many high profile 911 owners died and prevailed in lawsuits against Porsche not to mention the 911 safety driving classes that Porsche had to bear the expense of offering.
*On an investment thesis basis, the 928 is the single biggest slam dunk value play across any Porsche, whereas the 911 is a next greater fool momentum play
06-07-2024, 02:12 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
06-29-2024, 02:58 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
Trending Topics
07-01-2024, 09:24 AM
#9
Rennlist Member
Since you asked for thoughts...the first thing I'll say is that "better" is a relative term and if you ask me which car is "better", a Toyota Prius or a VW Rabbit, my first question would be "Better at what?"
Next, why does one of these cars need to be "better" than the other? There are many people (like myself) who appreciate both the 911 and the 928 for different reasons. They can both be great. They can both be desired. They can both be respected. Simultaneously. And by the same people.
So here I've broken down your points into different groups. IMO only a few of these are valid points as to why, in general, somebody might feel the 928 is a better car than the 911. The rest of your points are either factually questionable, subjective, or irrelevant in any such argument:
These are valid points:
*the 928 is 50/50 weight distribution. the 911 is 40/60
*the 928 was more horse power than the 911
*the 928 front and back seats are more spacious than a 911s
*the 928 was made of solid billet steel with aluminum and galvanized steel panels that do not rust. Many 911 panels rust.
*the 928 has a higher power to weight ratio than the 911
*the 928 is faster than the 911 (and corvette) both off the line and definitely on top end speeds
These are iffy:
*the 928 pioneered the Weissach toe in/passive steering suspension system. the 911 over steers badly/often (NOTE: I would point out that it really depends on which 911 you're talking about)
*the 928 invented red brake calipers. the 911 did not. (NOTE: Brembo claims to have invented painted brake calipers - even if they were used on the 928, that doesn't mean the 928 "invented" them - and it certainly doesn't make one car better than the other)
*Porsche never received bad press or was sued by 928 owners. Many high profile 911 owners died and prevailed in lawsuits against Porsche not to mention the 911 safety driving classes that Porsche had to bear the expense of offering. (NOTE: There is no way for you to know whether or not these statements are true)
These are things I disagree with:
*the 928 pioneered the use of the center console. the 911 did not come up with a unique single interior design feature (NOTE: The 928 did not pioneer the use of a center console. Many cars had a center console before the 928. Just because Porsches didn't have one doesn't mean that the 928 "pioneered" the feature. Plus, I imagine many people would say the 911's iconic 5-gauge layout would be considered a unique interior design feature)
*total 928 production is a fraction of a single year of 911 sales making the 928 much rarer (NOTE: that doesn't make a car "better"; Is the Pontiac Aztek better than the Porsche 944 because it's more rare?)
*the 928's rear / hatch has a large/heavy curved shaped piece of glass. the 911s back glass is small and timid by comparison. (NOTE: "Large and heavy" in a sports car, even a GT car, is generally considered to be a bad thing)
These are totally subjective as to whether or not they make one car better than another:
*the 928 is a blank slate Porsche design. the 911 is the evolution of the volkswagon beetle.
*the 928 has a futuristic/iconic design and is more unique. the 911's cosmetic claim is its just more recognized.
*the 928 set two(2) Bonneville Salt Flats "production" care land speed records. The 911 set none. (NOTE: That doesn't make one car better than the other)
*the 928 has unique Lamborghini Mura pop up headlights. the 911 has wrestled with head light designs and very badly flopped with the 996 flat egg headlight (NOTE: you can't talk about a 928 AND use the phrase "unique Lamborghini Mura [sic] headlights" since, if the headlights were on the Miura first, they're not unique to the 928)
*the 928 came with rear sun visors. the 911 did not
These are entirely irrelevant:
*the 928 is the only "sports" car ever to win "Car" of the year. the 911 was never in the running for Car of the year.
*the base 928 was more than twice the price of a base 911 and could be spec'd out to be multiples of a comparable 911.
*928 owners are collectors that appreciate form/design and function. 911 owners often buy based on the color of a car. (NOTE: this statement is completely absurd)
*Wolf Gang Mobius Anatole Lapine designed the 928. (NOTE: Wolfgang Mobius and Anatole Lapine are two different people and so what? Marcello Gandini designed the VW Polo. Felix Wankel designed the rotary engine. What does that have to do with one car being better than another?)
*the 928 pioneered the enclosed accordion front and rear bumper. the 911 doesn't have enclosed bumpers.
*the 928 invented and pioneered the map pocket. the 911 did not. (NOTE: Again, just because the 928 may have been the first PORSCHE to include a particular feature does not mean the "928 invented" that feature)
*the 928, due to a more rigorous bird cage has a envelope sunroof. the 911 has a full size sunroof with less structural roll bar protection.
*the 928 has 45'' steel trap/bank vault doors. the 911 doors are shorter. (NOTE: Huh? Seriously? One car is better than the other because of the length of its doors?)
*the 928 turns heads and is appreciated by all generations - both men and women are mezmerized by its look. Where as there a jokes about 911 owners where the joke;s punch line connotes "the ***** in the 911" (NOTE: Again, this is an absurd statement)
*the 928s rear quarter panel glass is shape/curved. the 911s passenger seat class is small triangle. (NOTE: Assuming you meant "passenger seat glass" but again, so what?)
*On an investment thesis basis, the 928 is the single biggest slam dunk value play across any Porsche, whereas the 911 is a next greater fool momentum play (NOTE: Yet another absurd statement and best case completely subjective)
Next, why does one of these cars need to be "better" than the other? There are many people (like myself) who appreciate both the 911 and the 928 for different reasons. They can both be great. They can both be desired. They can both be respected. Simultaneously. And by the same people.
So here I've broken down your points into different groups. IMO only a few of these are valid points as to why, in general, somebody might feel the 928 is a better car than the 911. The rest of your points are either factually questionable, subjective, or irrelevant in any such argument:
These are valid points:
*the 928 is 50/50 weight distribution. the 911 is 40/60
*the 928 was more horse power than the 911
*the 928 front and back seats are more spacious than a 911s
*the 928 was made of solid billet steel with aluminum and galvanized steel panels that do not rust. Many 911 panels rust.
*the 928 has a higher power to weight ratio than the 911
*the 928 is faster than the 911 (and corvette) both off the line and definitely on top end speeds
These are iffy:
*the 928 pioneered the Weissach toe in/passive steering suspension system. the 911 over steers badly/often (NOTE: I would point out that it really depends on which 911 you're talking about)
*the 928 invented red brake calipers. the 911 did not. (NOTE: Brembo claims to have invented painted brake calipers - even if they were used on the 928, that doesn't mean the 928 "invented" them - and it certainly doesn't make one car better than the other)
*Porsche never received bad press or was sued by 928 owners. Many high profile 911 owners died and prevailed in lawsuits against Porsche not to mention the 911 safety driving classes that Porsche had to bear the expense of offering. (NOTE: There is no way for you to know whether or not these statements are true)
These are things I disagree with:
*the 928 pioneered the use of the center console. the 911 did not come up with a unique single interior design feature (NOTE: The 928 did not pioneer the use of a center console. Many cars had a center console before the 928. Just because Porsches didn't have one doesn't mean that the 928 "pioneered" the feature. Plus, I imagine many people would say the 911's iconic 5-gauge layout would be considered a unique interior design feature)
*total 928 production is a fraction of a single year of 911 sales making the 928 much rarer (NOTE: that doesn't make a car "better"; Is the Pontiac Aztek better than the Porsche 944 because it's more rare?)
*the 928's rear / hatch has a large/heavy curved shaped piece of glass. the 911s back glass is small and timid by comparison. (NOTE: "Large and heavy" in a sports car, even a GT car, is generally considered to be a bad thing)
These are totally subjective as to whether or not they make one car better than another:
*the 928 is a blank slate Porsche design. the 911 is the evolution of the volkswagon beetle.
*the 928 has a futuristic/iconic design and is more unique. the 911's cosmetic claim is its just more recognized.
*the 928 set two(2) Bonneville Salt Flats "production" care land speed records. The 911 set none. (NOTE: That doesn't make one car better than the other)
*the 928 has unique Lamborghini Mura pop up headlights. the 911 has wrestled with head light designs and very badly flopped with the 996 flat egg headlight (NOTE: you can't talk about a 928 AND use the phrase "unique Lamborghini Mura [sic] headlights" since, if the headlights were on the Miura first, they're not unique to the 928)
*the 928 came with rear sun visors. the 911 did not
These are entirely irrelevant:
*the 928 is the only "sports" car ever to win "Car" of the year. the 911 was never in the running for Car of the year.
*the base 928 was more than twice the price of a base 911 and could be spec'd out to be multiples of a comparable 911.
*928 owners are collectors that appreciate form/design and function. 911 owners often buy based on the color of a car. (NOTE: this statement is completely absurd)
*Wolf Gang Mobius Anatole Lapine designed the 928. (NOTE: Wolfgang Mobius and Anatole Lapine are two different people and so what? Marcello Gandini designed the VW Polo. Felix Wankel designed the rotary engine. What does that have to do with one car being better than another?)
*the 928 pioneered the enclosed accordion front and rear bumper. the 911 doesn't have enclosed bumpers.
*the 928 invented and pioneered the map pocket. the 911 did not. (NOTE: Again, just because the 928 may have been the first PORSCHE to include a particular feature does not mean the "928 invented" that feature)
*the 928, due to a more rigorous bird cage has a envelope sunroof. the 911 has a full size sunroof with less structural roll bar protection.
*the 928 has 45'' steel trap/bank vault doors. the 911 doors are shorter. (NOTE: Huh? Seriously? One car is better than the other because of the length of its doors?)
*the 928 turns heads and is appreciated by all generations - both men and women are mezmerized by its look. Where as there a jokes about 911 owners where the joke;s punch line connotes "the ***** in the 911" (NOTE: Again, this is an absurd statement)
*the 928s rear quarter panel glass is shape/curved. the 911s passenger seat class is small triangle. (NOTE: Assuming you meant "passenger seat glass" but again, so what?)
*On an investment thesis basis, the 928 is the single biggest slam dunk value play across any Porsche, whereas the 911 is a next greater fool momentum play (NOTE: Yet another absurd statement and best case completely subjective)
The comparable year 911 is the poor man's 928.
(with all due respect hear me out I'm just calling ***** and strikes - actively seeking thoughts/arguments against/other data points)
*the 928 is the only "sports" car ever to win "Car" of the year. the 911 was never in the running for Car of the year.
*the base 928 was more than twice the price of a base 911 and could be spec'd out to be multiples of a comparable 911.
*the 928 is 50/50 weight distribution. the 911 is 40/60
*the 928 pioneered the Weissach toe in/passive steering suspension system. the 911 over steers badly/often
*the 928 is a blank slate Porsche design. the 911 is the evolution of the volkswagon beetle.
*the 928 pioneered the use of the center console. the 911 did not come up with a unique single interior design feature
*the 928 was more horse power than the 911
*the 928 has a futuristic/iconic design and is more unique. the 911's cosmetic claim is its just more recognized.
*the 928 set two(2) Bonneville Salt Flats "production" care land speed records. The 911 set none.
*the 928 invented red brake calipers. the 911 did not.
*the 928 has unique Lamborghini Mura pop up headlights. the 911 has wrestled with head light designs and very badly flopped with the 996 flat egg headlight
*928 owners are collectors that appreciate form/design and function. 911 owners often buy based on the color of a car.
*total 928 production is a fraction of a single year of 911 sales making the 928 much rarer
*a 5 speed 928 is much rarer and lesser in total production numbers than any single year manual 911 sold
*Wolf Gang Mobius Anatole Lapine designed the 928.
*the 928 came with rear sun visors. the 911 did not
*the 928 pioneered the enclosed accordion front and rear bumper. the 911 doesn't have enclosed bumpers.
*the 928 invented and pioneered the map pocket. the 911 did not.
*the 928, due to a more rigorous bird cage has a envelope sunroof. the 911 has a full size sunroof with less structural roll bar protection.
*the 928 front and back seats are more spacious than a 911s
*the 928 has 45'' steel trap/bank vault doors. the 911 doors are shorter.
*the 928 has a higher power to weight ratio than the 911
*the 928 is faster than the 911 (and corvette) both off the line and definitely on top end speeds
*the 928 was made of solid billet steel with aluminum and galvanized steel panels that do not rust. Many 911 panels rust.
*the 928 turns heads and is appreciated by all generations - both men and women are mezmerized by its look. Where as there a jokes about 911 owners where the joke;s punch line connotes "the ***** in the 911"
*the 928's rear / hatch has a large/heavy curved shaped piece of glass. the 911s back glass is small and timid by comparison.
*the 928s rear quarter panel glass is shape/curved. the 911s passenger seat class is small triangle.
*Porsche never received bad press or was sued by 928 owners. Many high profile 911 owners died and prevailed in lawsuits against Porsche not to mention the 911 safety driving classes that Porsche had to bear the expense of offering.
*On an investment thesis basis, the 928 is the single biggest slam dunk value play across any Porsche, whereas the 911 is a next greater fool momentum play
(with all due respect hear me out I'm just calling ***** and strikes - actively seeking thoughts/arguments against/other data points)
*the 928 is the only "sports" car ever to win "Car" of the year. the 911 was never in the running for Car of the year.
*the base 928 was more than twice the price of a base 911 and could be spec'd out to be multiples of a comparable 911.
*the 928 is 50/50 weight distribution. the 911 is 40/60
*the 928 pioneered the Weissach toe in/passive steering suspension system. the 911 over steers badly/often
*the 928 is a blank slate Porsche design. the 911 is the evolution of the volkswagon beetle.
*the 928 pioneered the use of the center console. the 911 did not come up with a unique single interior design feature
*the 928 was more horse power than the 911
*the 928 has a futuristic/iconic design and is more unique. the 911's cosmetic claim is its just more recognized.
*the 928 set two(2) Bonneville Salt Flats "production" care land speed records. The 911 set none.
*the 928 invented red brake calipers. the 911 did not.
*the 928 has unique Lamborghini Mura pop up headlights. the 911 has wrestled with head light designs and very badly flopped with the 996 flat egg headlight
*928 owners are collectors that appreciate form/design and function. 911 owners often buy based on the color of a car.
*total 928 production is a fraction of a single year of 911 sales making the 928 much rarer
*a 5 speed 928 is much rarer and lesser in total production numbers than any single year manual 911 sold
*Wolf Gang Mobius Anatole Lapine designed the 928.
*the 928 came with rear sun visors. the 911 did not
*the 928 pioneered the enclosed accordion front and rear bumper. the 911 doesn't have enclosed bumpers.
*the 928 invented and pioneered the map pocket. the 911 did not.
*the 928, due to a more rigorous bird cage has a envelope sunroof. the 911 has a full size sunroof with less structural roll bar protection.
*the 928 front and back seats are more spacious than a 911s
*the 928 has 45'' steel trap/bank vault doors. the 911 doors are shorter.
*the 928 has a higher power to weight ratio than the 911
*the 928 is faster than the 911 (and corvette) both off the line and definitely on top end speeds
*the 928 was made of solid billet steel with aluminum and galvanized steel panels that do not rust. Many 911 panels rust.
*the 928 turns heads and is appreciated by all generations - both men and women are mezmerized by its look. Where as there a jokes about 911 owners where the joke;s punch line connotes "the ***** in the 911"
*the 928's rear / hatch has a large/heavy curved shaped piece of glass. the 911s back glass is small and timid by comparison.
*the 928s rear quarter panel glass is shape/curved. the 911s passenger seat class is small triangle.
*Porsche never received bad press or was sued by 928 owners. Many high profile 911 owners died and prevailed in lawsuits against Porsche not to mention the 911 safety driving classes that Porsche had to bear the expense of offering.
*On an investment thesis basis, the 928 is the single biggest slam dunk value play across any Porsche, whereas the 911 is a next greater fool momentum play
07-01-2024, 10:49 AM
#10
Rennlist Member
Is it possible to like one car and not have to disparage the other?
It's Volkswagen, not Volkswagon.
V8 vs 6 cyl, I would hope it has more HP.
My 993 has "enclosed" bumpers. It turns plenty of heads. Modern and reliable enough that I can drive it to work, like I did 2 times last week. Visibility is fine even with that "small" rear window.
Wishing you well on your 928 ownership. If I saw one on the road or any older Porsche , I will wave.
Anyone with money can go buy the newest one. Lets keep the older Porsches on the road, being used and not garage queens.
It's Volkswagen, not Volkswagon.
V8 vs 6 cyl, I would hope it has more HP.
My 993 has "enclosed" bumpers. It turns plenty of heads. Modern and reliable enough that I can drive it to work, like I did 2 times last week. Visibility is fine even with that "small" rear window.
Wishing you well on your 928 ownership. If I saw one on the road or any older Porsche , I will wave.
Anyone with money can go buy the newest one. Lets keep the older Porsches on the road, being used and not garage queens.
07-11-2024, 09:17 AM
#12
Gentlemen-I'm not trying to disparage one car or the other. Apologies if the list came across as such.
To the comments above they are different tools for different use cases. They are both excellent cars in their own way.
And Yes. 911 sales have far outpaced 928 sales. But given the 928s 17 year total production sales of 60k globally, with about 30k 928s shipped to the US and 3,000 to 6,000 5 speeds in the US there is a "rarity investment thesis" to be made as to why the 928 will go up in value - particularly a 5 speed. Also market trends can change dramatically like fashion.
From 2003 there are a number of British Mag articles comparing the 911 vs the 928. One says the 928 is a Lear Jet. The article refers to the 911 as a "toy." By referring to the 911 as a "toy" is not meant to be derogatory in its usage. It was just a descriptive term to connote "fun."
Please continue the debate in good spirits and apologies if it came across as disparaging. I do believe its worth calling ***** and strikes even if its polarizing to get peoples attention though. Again, apologies if it came across as disparaging - not my intention at all.
To the comments above they are different tools for different use cases. They are both excellent cars in their own way.
And Yes. 911 sales have far outpaced 928 sales. But given the 928s 17 year total production sales of 60k globally, with about 30k 928s shipped to the US and 3,000 to 6,000 5 speeds in the US there is a "rarity investment thesis" to be made as to why the 928 will go up in value - particularly a 5 speed. Also market trends can change dramatically like fashion.
From 2003 there are a number of British Mag articles comparing the 911 vs the 928. One says the 928 is a Lear Jet. The article refers to the 911 as a "toy." By referring to the 911 as a "toy" is not meant to be derogatory in its usage. It was just a descriptive term to connote "fun."
Please continue the debate in good spirits and apologies if it came across as disparaging. I do believe its worth calling ***** and strikes even if its polarizing to get peoples attention though. Again, apologies if it came across as disparaging - not my intention at all.