Roygarth

German magazine Sport Auto pitted the new CSL against the new 996GT3 around the Nurburgring and these were the times:

M3 CSL : 7mins 50secs
996 GT3 : 7mins 54secs

Porsche is £30k more expensive!

Oops!

Piers

sweanders

It's interesting to see, how many laps did they cover and which car was the fastest in the majority of them?

JackOlsen

The M3 is a very easy car to drive.

Greg_L

2003 M3 CSL
360bhp@7900rpm
273ft/lbs@4900rpm
1385kg
top 155mph
0-60 mph 4.8secs

2003 GT3
381bhp@7400rpm
284ft/lbs@5000rpm
1380kg
top 190mph
0-60 mph 4.4secs

I find that pretty surprising. IMHO Either the CSL had a more talented driver (than Walter Rohl?!) or the GT3 was on road tyres and the CSL wasn't, or BMW are lying, or all of the above!

The GT3 managed 162mph at swedish cross corner, and would have hit 190 on the final straight which is very long. If the CSL really is limited to 155mph, it could never have managed a 7.50 lap . . . could it?

graham_mitchell

Assuming that the cars have an equal number of gears, the BMW must have much closer ratio gears. That would be a great advantage.

How long is the long straight? Assuming half a mile and travelling at 155mph, that would take 11.6 seconds. A car travelling at 190mph would take only 9.5 seconds - only 2.1 seconds quicker! However, the Porsche takes time to get up to that speed and back, so the advantage is even less. Maybe 1 second. Trivial...

LSM

I'll tell you exactly what happened. BMW claimed they would do the ring under 8 minutes. Try as they might, they could not get the car to run under 8 minutes. So, they tried to trick us. Before car finished production, BMW made the standard tires on the car the new michellin pilot sport cup. The Porsche runs on true street tires, albeit high performance ones. Given the same tires the GT3 would have destroyed the M3, it is a miracle the GT3 could even keep that close with the M3 seeing as it basically has track tires. Nice try BMW

-Lou

Roygarth

I was given these figures by a BMW driving/loving colleague! I'll find out more and let you know the 'details'.....it would be nice to get a copy of the magazine!

Brgds
Piers

Greg A

Where in the "rules" does it say BMW can't fit those tires as standard equipment on their car?

Greg A

Christer

Greg, that is irrelevant. There are no rules, we are just saying that a true like-for-like comparison is really the only way to know. You can believe what you want to believe of course, but the Sport Cups are worth a few secs on a 1:30 lap, what would they be worth on the Ring?

Roygarth

I know v. little about tyres. Are Michellin Pilot Sport Cup road legal?

Brgds
Piers

Adrian

Guys,
Yesterday, at the invitation of BMW Switzerland, I took a M3 CSL for a test drive. It is a fine car BUT there is no way it would nail a GT-3 unless the GT-3 was going backwards. For a start the M3 CSL is an automatic. It is quick but not that quick. One thing that did impress me was the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tyres. Dry weather only of course.
The M3 CSL has a lot of carbon fibre including the roof but it is full of gimmicks and nicknacks. Very nice car to drive, very solid, traction control system works well. Engine sounds nice. Upchanging using the sequential stick or the steering wheel paddles is lumpy. Downchanging is nice. Sort of a fake double de-clutch.
I have driven the GT-3 and there is no real comparison. I was expecting the M3 CSL to be like a lightweight RS style M3. Let me put it another way. It did not put a smile on my face like the GT-3 or RCT Evo or Turbo R have.
They are only building 1600 of these CSLs. Production stops in December. I doubt if many are really going to be seen.
The M3 CSL is a good all round high performance motor car. It is not a sports car it is a GT car. It is too sophisticated to my liking. A manual 6 speed box and some more weight removal would have been more to my liking. However with that said, the price of 127,000 CHF provides a good purchase for those looking for a high performance tourer that handles extremely well.
Not my kinda auto but I know that there are going to be 1600 happy owners out there.
Ciao,
Adrian
964C4

Roygarth

Hi Adrian

A drive in a GT3 and an M3 CSL - you lucky bugger!

But how did Sport Auto get the result claimed?

Brgds
Piers

Roygarth

BMW driving/loving colleague has read this thread and replied as follows:

'the tyre they are talking about are optional tyres that you can buy and they are street legal although they were specially developed for the CSL.
Also if you are buying the car, if you ask BMW, they will remove the limiter, so it is quite possible that this CSL was not limited to 155mph.
Also the CSL can generate 1.6g in the corners, which is awesome'

Just passing it on..............

Brgds
Piers

sweanders

Ok, let the BMW run on those tires and do a lap in the rain with the original GT3-tires.

Or even better still, let the GT3 owner get a set of wheels from the options list..

I like the M3's, but they are not as close to the real thing as a Porsche. With the real thing I mean a sports car..

Greg_L

The Dottinger Hohe straight is just under 2.5km so roughly 1.5 miles, therefore more like a 6 sec difference. But the CSL must have been demilited, and had a top of around 180mph.
I still find the 7.50 time hard to believe, but if sport auto mag claim that then i'll believe it. They are, afterall, the unofficial keeper of the production car record.

Out of interest British BTCC driver Phil Bennet smashed the production car record a couple of weeks ago in a Radical SR3 Turbo (Crazy 1.5litre bike engined British sports car). The previous record of 7:32.5 was from a 600bhp Gemballa 911 . The Radical, on its single clear lap, managed a 7:19.7