CLASSIC MUSCLE

Hey guys,

I work in the collector car business for my career, and typically invest a few cars per year for personal use. That said, I am very new to Porsches, having grown up owning mostly classic domestic muscle cars, such as Ford Mustangs. Starting this year, I'm really wanting to get into Porsches especially now that I'm in my 30's and getting a more mature taste for automobiles. I realize my question below is very general, but:

What group of Porsches from 1977-1998 generally has the stronger following? Are there some years that have less interest and are to be avoided or "bad" years? For instance, what would be more desirable, a 1980 911 SC with 80,000 miles or a 1992 964 911 w/ 80,000 miles? Would a 993 be more sought after than both of those?

I know the Turbos are more sought after in all years so I'm really asking about the non-Turbo cars. I'm looking to buy and enjoy cars in the $30,000 and down range to start. As my first Porsche, I can't really decide if I should get a 1977-1997 air cooled version or a 1998-2005 water cooled in my price range.

nathan1

The quickest way to get burned in any business is getting into an area you don't fully understand. Just like in your area of expertise (muscle cars) knowing 90% is easy. The final 10% is what makes all the difference in values. I don't buy muscle cars because I know just enough to be dangerous. I know cars so I can certainly tell whether its quality or not but I will make mistakes like not knowing that a certain option configuration makes one car worth $50k and a slight derivation will make it worth $100k, yet to the average eyes the cars look the same. It just the same on Porsche's.

One other piece of advice. This forum views the word "flip" or "flipper" with significant disdain, similar to using the other "F" word in front of your grandmother. If that's your intent you won't get much assistance from many in the community. People here will help you out if they think you are a genuine and real enthusiast, if they think otherwise you won't find it a nice place. I hope that is useful to you.

CLASSIC MUSCLE

#1--Your first paragraph is somewhat true, but if you don't start somewhere you will never learn anything new in life. I'm sure you weren't born a Porsche expert and I certainly wasn't born a muscle car expert. You make it sound like its pointless to try and learn a new trade.

#2--I was unaware buying/selling cars was such a taboo trade. Countless TV shows nowadays, such as Wayne Carini's "Chasing Classic Cars" or shows like "Fast & Loud" on Velocity Channel will show you it's legitimate business practice just like buying and selling houses, stocks, or whatever investment medium you choose. It can be done in an ethical manner where the original seller, the end purchaser, and the middle man all serve a purpose and are happy.

All that said, I removed the "F word" from my original post as to not offend anyone. You can't tell me there aren't guys on this forum, possibly yourself included, who try to buy a car right so they can maybe make a few bucks selling it down the line--that's all I'm looking to do as I have never been careless with anything I buy.

rglbegl

I have made money on every car I have owned, except 1.

Any air cooled 911 would be a good candidate for a flip.
It sounds like you already know what you are doing. So you know to look for problem spots, rust, repairs, etc etc.
Search these forums, the net, talk to Porsche mechanics. Do a little research and you should be fine. Some cars can be money pits, so a little education can save you in the long run.
You already know the car business so you will be fine

JCP911S

Rebuild a 911 motor, and then you will begin to have the experience necessary.

CLASSIC MUSCLE

Thanks guys. I think my original question was a bit too broad. Can someone an easy one for me? In the air-cooled classic Porsches, what are considered more desirable, the coupe w/ sunroof, the coupe w/o sunroof, or the Targa? Do the 911SC Coupes bring more than the 911SC Targas?

jorijori

Hi, my 2 cents:

Right now all air cool cars are hot not just in US / Europe but in Asia too (with the exception of China).

Here is the pecking order, from top $ to bottom:
1. Early 911s (64-73)
2. 993 (95-98)
3. 3.2 G50 tranny (87-88)
4. 3.2 915 tranny (84-86)
5. 964 (89-94)
6. SC (78-83)
7. Midyear (74-77)

That is the general rule with the exception being a low mile, 1 owner all original car. At this moment, 964 is rather in high demand, as Singer is scooping them up.

As with body style, coupe non sunroof is the most sought after by enthusiast, then followed by cabrio with targa.

Manual is valued higher than sportomatic / triptronic & 2 wheel drive rather than 4 wheel drive.

My advice is to buy Porsche related books, over here the popular one is Peter Zimmerman's 'The used 911 story'.

Steve Jensen

I think you will find that whatever car was hot when folks were in high school is what becomes the hot car when these folks get to be 45-55, have mortgages mostly paid off, kids out of hte house, good jobs, and disposable income. So for right now, I think the ones going up the most in value will be the mid to late 80s Carreras.

jorijori

Hi Steve, you are absolutely right I'm one of those high school kids. How about you?

Steve Jensen

I'm an unusual specimen.. I got out of high school in '89, but I grew up in my 356 - it was the car I came home from the hospital in, took family vacations in, learned to drive in... And while I love the '84-89 3.2 Carreras, especially the M491 cars, I can't afford the insurance, maintainence, or repairs on them. In fact, just sold the '84 M491 coupe my Dad bought to "replace" the 356.

jorijori

I grew up in the 80's & spent my whole adult life wanting 80's heroes such as M3, 190E 16V, M5 & C36AMG, but now I realized what I really like is car from the 70s (Pagoda, E9 3.0 CS, early 911).

The problem is I spent all the money on the 80s cars & the 70s cars value has risen twice/3x as much as the 80s cars.

Anyway, I hope you'll soon be back in a Porsche.

Steve Jensen

Sold the 911... still have the 356

Here's a pic of my son (now 10, he was 2 in this pic) sitting in it...

jorijori

Nice 356. Get a 912 before they become too expensive...

How different is 356 vs 3.2? I have 3.2 & 964, 3.2 is pretty raw for me. But I love 912 styling.

Steve Jensen

A 912 engine is the same spec as a 356SC - 95hp from factory. However, the body is the early 911 type, so it is heavier, and has different handling characteristics from the C/SC. And, the transmission is different, the 901 trans. Some came with 5 speed, most wiht 4 speed. And of course, the electrics are all 12v (12v was an option for 356 C and SC but most left the factory as 6v)

356 vs the 3.2L carrera? Totally different. As a mechanical idiot, even I can do work on the 356, not so on the 911. Then the whole horsepower issue. Of course, it is more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow, and in the 356 you can actually run the car in its zone and not worry too much about speeding tickets. 3rd gear and above on the 911 is inviting a visit from officer friendly on interstates, much less in and around town.

jorijori

I'm not into 356, but why are they so expensive vs. early 911?