gerry100

Had to chime in on this one -

Went to my first DE event at Watkins Glen last month. ( very well organized and run by my local BMWCCA chapter by the way). I had a great time with great people.

Quite a few M3's both new and old there and a few in my novice/intermediate run group.

I ran the whole circuit in 3rd due to shifter problems and despite my 130HP deficit and inexperience was able to equal or better the M3s in the curves before getting blown off on the straights. I also got an upper body workout on a few turns while they were "power steering".

I think as a I improve my transitions and "line" so as to maintain momemtum I'll be able to stay with them. HP/Torque makes up for a lot of technique.

M3 is a hell of a performance sedan IMHO. My '86 a hell of a sportscar.

Two completely different cars

Tabor

a brief list of 70's technology in the new porsches:

multi-link rear suspension
drive by wire throttle
stability control system (enabled by drive by wire throttle)
ABS
fully computer controlleed fuel injection
variable valve timing
AWD

yes, get that damn 70's technology out of there!

Adrian

Dear Tabor,
The AWD system in use on the 996 (and 993) was invented by Subaru in the 1970s. Viscous couplings.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

PS: Most of what you have listed by the way has been in service since the 60s and 70s in various forms and industries. Adaption of these systems into Porsche started in the 1980s. Way behind others.

Tabor

okay, so I will admit that the mult link rear suspension was available on some cars in the 70's, but other than that I have to disagree.

ABS - Mercedes 1985

fully computer controlleed fuel injection - ???, in the 80's Bosche Motronic was still not fully computer controlled, well, depending on your definition

variable valve timing - honda 199?/porsche 1992

AWD - Audi 1980, I went looking and I couldn't find any 1970's subaru with AWD. I know that my aunt owned a late 80's subaru wagon and it was still 4wd.

Deepice

I usually find that when someone goes through that many cars so quickly it means they are trying to use the car to replace things like confidence and self esteem.

These are the same people that are never happy with anything. and I will bet that he will develop some sort of world stoping problem with the M3.

Ruairidh

Tabor

I'm not sure what the difference between AWD and 4WD is for these purposes but, for me, the Ferguson Formula boys in the UK in the 60's (and in particular the Jensen FF of '66-'67) remain part of the reason I own a C4 (the influences we carry from childhood into adulthood...)..also a bunch of F1 and Indy cars in about 67 had AWD/4WD.

Also - and on the Jensen FF- the Dunlop Maxaret system was the first time I knew of ABS and after that I'm pretty sure that the Merc 450 6.9 of the mid-70s had a Bosch ABS system.

Ruairidh

Emanuele Ferry23

To be precise, ABS system showed up in the late sixties in a completely mechanical form (Dunlop Maxaret) on an american car (I don't remember the name but it was a coupe). An ABS was also tested on 1968 Matra Le Mans car but it was too heavy about 25 kgs!! The BOSCH electronic version, whose evolution is the actual system, appeared as an option in 1979 Mercedes S series. Terribly expensive (You could buy a citycar for that price!).

Hope I wasn't boring...

However Tabor, long live 964!!

Adrian

I guess to be 100% precise the first AWD/4WD was the Loehner-Porsche.
The technology in the Bosch motronics in the 80s came from the 70s. All of this stuff including throttle by wire, ABS etc was all developed from the work carried out in military aviation.
PSM would be a system which I would consider one of the 90s. However this is only a reversal of the ABS principle. ABS removes pressure from a caliper to allow wheel speed to increase and PSM applies pressure to a caliper to slow the wheel down (traction control),
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

John..

[QUOTE]

I usually find that when someone goes through that many cars so quickly it means they are trying to use the car to replace things like confidence and self esteem.
These are the same people that are never happy with anything. and I will bet that he will develop some sort of world stoping problem with the M3.


Very well put. Perhaps he will change his mind when the lower end of the motor blows with less than 10,000 miles on the clock?

A friend of mine works at a dealer and he told me they were replacing engines in some of the older (late 90s) 7 series cars (V-12 cars) under warranty.

The only BMWs that interest me at the 2002, the 3.0 coupe and the early 70s Bavaria cars.

stupenal

I always thought the Variable Valve timing came from Toyota in the very very early 80s. Back then, toyota was way into engine management systems and valve timing. While it was primitive, I forgot the exact name given to the tech, it was still some form of vtec. But then again, this is from my AE86 friend who swears by toyota.

Tabor

Ruairidh,

To my knowledge AWD is where a transmission drives an AWD drive train. 4wd is where the transmission drives 2 drive shafts, to 2 different differentials. This actually leaves the 911s in a fishy middle ground. Not really AWD and not really 4WD.

I stand corrected on Mercedes and ABS.

As for motronic being developed in the 70's, I won't argue. But I really think you have to look at when it was released to the public.

l3sl13

Just to add my two penneth...
My office is right next door to BMW UK HQ so every day I see the best and worst of Beemer owners. I have to say that IMHO 3 series owners come across as wealthier GTI boy racers.
It's not the car, its the owner.
Leave Pono to his new toy and penile fixations.

Emanuele Ferry23

Hey, variable valve timing is an italian invention!!
It apperared first on Alfa Romeo Alfetta 2.0i Quadrifoglio Oro in 1983. It was very simple (it just shifted the relative position camshaft-chain gear by few degrees - no lift variation ) However it proved to be very efficient.

Deepice

I always thought ABS was a product of Boeing. Adapted for autos

ked

EF23, I was thinking of pointing that one out too (about the Alfa cam advance), but I was afraid no one would believe that AR had done anything innovative since the twin-cam hemi-head motor of the early 20's (don't count the Bosch-licensed SPICA MFI, replacing Webers, as an innovation).

That system (devised to manage emissions AND provide advance when the engine is warmed up) has been licensed to many maunfacturers - I'm not sure PAG is one of them. Indeed, it did work well.

{mid-80's to final year ('93) Alfa Spiders, w/ Bosch L-Jetronic & the cam advance, are very nice "classic" open sports cars for "cheap", keep it to yourselves, please.}

Yet another example is Mitsubishi's counter-rotating balance shaft design, used to achieve smoothness at high revs in large displacement 4 cyl. engines. I guess the Japanese were working on perfecting Triumph's old engines (or something British). Anyway, of course that ended up (under license) in the 944/968 family.

Lotsa cross-breeding in auto engineering, isn't there?