I would like to know, with some strong degree of proof, what was the original color of the very first Porsche- 356.001.

Whoa, put your gun back in the holster, there is strong evidence it was definitley NOT silver.
<img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" />

 

I think it was white...

 

There is a little irony in your reply, as the first road test, of this fertile seed, was by a magazine in Switzerland!

 

Jeff,
Here is a picture from an official Porsche poster:


and a photo of the car with Ferdinand Porsche:


The first one was a cabriolet, the second a coupe.

 

Maybe it was just primer..and the final (silver) paint had not been applied! <img src="graemlins/icon501.gif" border="0" alt="[icon501]" />

 

As I recall from the Monterey Historics in 98 it was silver.

In the factory's museum book photo, it sure looks silver.

(But on the seat there is a piece of paper. I'm not sure but it may be an Earl Shieb receipt...)

M in C

 

Note that the current configuration of the "restored" 356.001 is not authentic to the original. This car has been "restored" at least 3 times. Currently it displays the "wrong": dashboard (and instrument cluster), seats (2 place vs. 3 place), and rear decklid/hood. So why would there be any more devotion to authenticity regarding the paint?

The evidence shows (993RS's and others) strong support of the white color scheme. Silver was a very unpopular color for cars made anywhere in the world in the late Fifties. You would be hard pressed to find this color available by any manufacture of automobiles. Further, the "National Racing Color" for Germany was white then. You can not doubt that the people at Porsche had aspirations to race, even before the designers put pencil to paper for 356.001.

The best estimate of the shade of white is a "creamy" one, not pure white. <img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" />

 

canary

I thought silver was always the German national color for racing. (Remember the audis and mbs from the 30s?)

White with blue stipe was US

blue for France,

BRG for B

and red for italy.

I have no primary reference for it, just memory.

Sponsorship money ended all that of course.

 

Mike,
The German racing color was white or sometimes silver, when the aluminum body was left unpainted.
Check this out for racing colors:
<a href="http://www.teammiata.com/libs/race_colors.htm" target="_blank">Racing Colors</a>

 

Thanks RS, great background material

 

There are people alive who do know, but this is not the place, or right crowd for you to get a definitive answer. I suggest you ask someone at Porsche themselves, hey there's an idea, let's ask the people who know.


8 Canary:

In the late 1950's Porsche's factory cars were silver (Think 550 spyder) also the Porsche/Cisitalia GP car of the same period as Porsche #1 (late 1940's) was Silver, so your comment is strange.

And just to muddy the water: It has been told that the Silver GP cars came about in the 30's because one of the Mercedes(?) cars was overweight by a small margin (there was a maximum weight limit in those days). They stripped the paint and made weight, then liked the look so they and the other German teams adopted it as the defacto German racing color. The Mercedes cars in the 50's were also Silver.

 

Here is a photo of the first Porsche taken in the Porsche factory museum in Stuttgart:



(Car might have been repainted...)

Here is a picture of one of the first 50 Porsches produced in the original cream white color. This was most probably the original color of the first Porsche as well:

 

As the father of this thread I have a responsibility to it’s development. So in an effort to restore, and possibly elevate, its credibility I must do some housekeeping. Some rain clouds have blown over here, and one is quite sarcastic-ouch!

First errata: My use of the term “late Fifties” era should have been “late Forties”, as to envelope the well known period of the creation of 356.001.

Let me throw some facts into the pool in the hope that it will splash out some of the misinformation, derived from myth and folklore (“…it has been told…&#8221 , that is beginning to “muddy” this discussion. Thank you to “993RS”, for helping with this.

In 1934 the factory Mercedes GP racing cars were changed in their color from the prior white (since 1908) to bare metal. At the time, the new and typically robust (Mercedes trademark), designed W25 did not meet the 750 kg weight maximum limit. After some excruciating weight reduction of as many mechanical components as reasonable, the car was still 3 kg over weight. The last step of this diet was to strip all of the white paint off of the body (the wheels remained white) leaving the silver color of bare aluminum and steel. Both Alfred Neubauer (team manger) and Manfred von Brauchitsch (driver) claim responsibility for this milestone idea, which is still debated today, and is way off topic of this thread. The philosophy was sold to the National Racing purists under the premise.. “white is the absence of color, the color of the car is paint, so silver (bare metal) is the absence of color.

What is “strange” is the Castalia car reference. This car was commissioned by an Italian customer. If it had been completed in time to actually race, and thus be painted in the period colors, it would have been red. Back to topic.

The context I used to describe the color silver as an “option” was in regard to customer street car selections, not factory race car colors. I thought that was easy to understand. Obviously it was Porsches primary goal to sell street cars, as much as possible. Hence the prompt sale of 356.001 to a very well connected (financially and socially) car dealer in Switzerland. Swiss market penetration was chosen as the post WWII economy there was dramatically better than in Germany (sports cars were still discretionary income purchases then).

This owner later changed (butchered) the body of 356.001 in an attempt to emulated the beautiful shape of the, not always silver, race car 550’s. One of which won the Targa Florio in 1957 with a white colored body and silver wheels under a factory effort via Huschke von Hanstein and driven by the Italian legend Umberto Maglioli-hence the red colored fender stripes. The body was in this state when the factory reclaimed it.

My solicitation to the members of this forum is an ideal place to start because of its broad focus. Known paths lead to known places. If I wanted to reinforce my belief in the color silver, all I would have to do is open that big fat coffee table book, full of “restored” car pictures and find that one color picture, and "eureka"-over the cliff I go. There are many contributors to this forum who “work for Porsche”. Many work in post production support roles (sales, service, etc). There is at least one (name withheld) who works at the” factory”. I do not know if he is Swabian, but I think that detail can be overlooked when judging his credibility, knowledge and devotion.

I doubt that any person who worked on this car, during it’s creation, still works at what is now known as Porsche. They would be about 75 years old and most likely have retired a while back. JonM does not know, but others (on this forum) do know of; a specific POC (point of contact) at the Porsche factory (preferably the Historical Archives Department), or other information -such as from “993RS”.

The “idea” of this forum is to unite people with the same needs and affinity for the whole Porsche world and come away from it with more than when they went in.
It is not a therapeutic outlet for people who need to make up for short comings in their own lives, by “non-supportive” posts.
<img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" />

 

8 Canary

Try Terry Wells at PCNA. I have talked to him a few times, and he has been very kind and helpful, though I'm sure he won't remember with all the people he helps. I'd have given you a contact number, but have not seen him since they moved and the business card I have is of course no longer any good. Just call the corporate office and see what you can do. If he can't facilitate help I'm sure he can direct you to someone who can. Oh and be careful about what you think someone does or does not know, OK.

BTW,

1. I think is was some shade of white, but that's just more speculation, which this entire Rennlist board is just so full of these days, sorry I hurt your feelings, it just seems that in this day of chat rooms and instant gratification people have forgot how to pick up a phone and call around, you know do real grunt work. Yes there are actually quite a few people who either work for Porsche or have intimate knowledge who frequent Rennlist, however your post was a general question about substancial proof, but you did not direct your question to them, your post is set up as a discussion. Maybe if you would just ask for contacts at Porsche who could help you get to the info it would be more effective.

2. My comment about muddying the water was obviously tongue in cheek, to sort of illustrate the effect of speculation. I know I know, who said it was my place anyway. But then the last line of your first post was already a little sarcastic no?

But I must say your attempts at personal insults undermine your integrity, are frankly unecessary, and would indicate a certain desperation or fear/insecurity, I'm sure this is not true of you, nor your intention, but that is sadly the way you are coming across.

Good Luck in your search, and let us all know what you find.


And as someone once said:
"Don't take life so seriously, because you can't get out of it alive."

 

I believe that Piero Dusio, who funded the Cisitalia, was an Italian expat in Argentina, where he made his fortune in the appliance business. Therefore, the Cisitalia 4WD F1 car might have run w/ Argentinian colors, had things progressed that far.

Another point on silver as a German racing color, I have heard (or read) that after WWII there was an understandable sensitivity to the persistent image of swastika festooned, **** subsidized racing cars such as the Silver Arrows & Auto Unions, and that post-war German racing teams understandably avoided silver & went back to white at that time. Any knowledge of this?