So Porsche now owns Audi?
03-28-2007, 08:43 PM
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OT is full of information on the deal. Check it out.
03-28-2007, 08:46 PM
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I would have no problem with that. VW has tied Audi's hands behind its back even since VW took over. Porsche and Audi need to make a special car like the the old days of the Audi RS2.
03-29-2007, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by P-Car944
I would have no problem with that. VW has tied Audi's hands behind its back even since VW took over. Porsche and Audi need to make a special car like the the old days of the Audi RS2.
Before VAG took over Audi, you couldn't gove the company away, now it is worth more than the rest of the entire VAG group, at leat its genuinely profitable.
VAG has let Audi dominate Rallying and then dominate Endurance racing, its also let them buy Lamborghini.
What it has not encourtaged them to do, is make a rear wheel drive four door road car, which Winterkorn wanted to do. That could have ended up in a very destructive war with BMW and cannabised existing quattro sales.
As for how good the RS2 is, just drive it back to back with a new RS4. The world has moved on. Audi is no longer a sports brand (was it ever?), its a lifestyle brand. It does it very well, who wouldn't rather drive a 8 series Audi than a S class Mercedes or 7 series BMW.
The challenge for the German big 3 will come from the Primula (aka Panamera), revised Maserati Quattroporte (now with slush box) and AM Rapide as far as high speed luxury saloons are concerned.
A thoughtful person might wonder what is going to happen to Bugatti now that the Veyron project has run its course. VAG buys luxury brands, boosts the label and simultaneously relaeases more affordable models wearing the luxury brand. Its very effective, if possibly a little short term, so traditional Bentley customers have moved away from Bentley, for example. But the cars are perfect for the US, Russia and China, and footballers. As traditional Bentley buyers used to be happy to wait eithteen months for a car, visit the factory several times to consult on its options and fit out, and then keep the finished car for ten years, they are a bit of an anomaly in the current era.
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03-30-2007, 03:26 PM
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That is true but at the same time, VAG has tied Audi's hands behind its back by not letting the Ur-S3 or Ur-A3 (3 dr) over to the US. VAG has also brought consumers mind set thinking that VW and a Audi are the same thing and that waters down the mindset of a Audi owner or future owner. As for "Audi" being a "Sport" icon, that is really for the Audi enthusiasts that want that Special Audi. I welcome Porsche owning Audi and it will be better for Audi and its owners in the future.
03-31-2007, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by P-Car944
VAG has also brought consumers mind set thinking that VW and a Audi are the same thing and that waters down the mindset of a Audi owner or future owner.
you mean they are NOT the same thing........
TTs, A3s, A4s, are all VW cars, the A6 is a stretched Passat (I think thats the model).
The A8 is different, the R8 is different, the A2 is different, but the bulk, in terms of numbers are Volkswagens.
In recent years, what has held Audi back has been the strong hand of Ferdinand Piech, chairman of VAG, who designed the 917 for Porsche and as a senior member of the Porsche family, one of the most influentially on the Porsche board.
Porsche has been directing Audi's and VAG's destiny for a long time.
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03-31-2007, 11:21 PM
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Well VW does use some Audi components but Audi does not use VW technology. When people say VW and Audi are the same, I just told people to drive a VW and then a Audi and you will know the different. Plus the fit and finish between Audi and VW is like night and day. Sit in a VW and its like sitting in a econo box.
04-01-2007, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by P-Car944
Well VW does use some Audi components but Audi does not use VW technology. When people say VW and Audi are the same, I just told people to drive a VW and then a Audi and you will know the different. Plus the fit and finish between Audi and VW is like night and day. Sit in a VW and its like sitting in a econo box.
If there is a father of platform sharing, its Ferdinand Piech, so the Bentley Continental is a Volkswagen Phaeton, the Audi A3 and TT are VW Golfs, the A4 and Passat share a platform, as do all the various cars from SEAT and Skoda.
Audi's engine plant builds thousands of engines for VAG. The W12 engine used by Audi is supplied by VAG. Look at the grills on the front of the R32 qand the RS4 - same supplier, its the same right through the cars.
VAG has been working very hard to rise above the econobox category, and it has been surprisingly successful in its home market.
To the superficial observer, the cars are different.
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04-02-2007, 04:43 AM
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All it takes is a drive and you know the difference...Do you work for VAG? you are very knowledgable in this topic. I just used to sell Porsche's and Audi's. I didnt want to touch a VW when it came to sales. The A3 and TT's are not VW Golf's...the VW Golf is no where in the same league as the Audi line. The VW Passat feels very distance like a Ford, nothing like a Audi.
04-02-2007, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by P-Car944
All it takes is a drive and you know the difference..
Precisely, the TT is a tarted up Golf.
For example, why did it take so long to change the Haldex system on the TT and A3? Because VAG wasn't ready to release a new Golf until some time after some dimwit at VAG reaslised that the initial Haldex system was Open Loop, that means that you could not be certain that driven through the same corner in the same way, the car would behave the same way on consecutive occasions.
Simply filling the car with better quality touchy-feely plastic trim, fancy seats, different indstrument lighting and fany paint jobs doent change whats underneath.
As far as my knowledge óf VAG/PAG is concerned, you may regard it as 'informed'. I get professionally involved in motorsport, model development and strategic issues.
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04-02-2007, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by DonW-Cape Cod
How much of VAG does Porsche own now?
Yes, VAG is a state controlled outfit.
Peter R.
04-02-2007, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Nordschleife
As far as my knowledge óf VAG/PAG is concerned
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Peter R.
04-02-2007, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter R.
PAG, or the Premier Automobile Group, is owned by Ford, and groups Land Rover, Jaguar, Aston Martin and Volvo (am I forgetting someone ?).
Peter R.
Peter R.
Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche Aktiengesellschaft
Otherwise known as Porsche AG or PAG
Volkswagen Aktiengesellschaft is known as VAG
Premier Automobile Group is a dead duck, its lost AM, its losing Jaguar and who cares, certainly nobody who ever worked for them - a bunch of arrogant ****heads who seem supremely oblivious to their imminent demise.
To show just how off the ball Ford are/were, they gave their 'special auto group' the same name that one of the industry's most iconic manufacturers has used for years.
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