jbd3

Hi, Rennlist. Long time listener; first time caller, as the old saying goes. Just signed up for an official membership today, because, well, I certainly don't spend enough time looking at computers. I had a used Boxster which I sold 9 years ago, and I'm winding up for a potential used 911 purchase. (Which has been a windup of nearly 50 years.... Should have just bought an air-cooled in the mid-70s, when I was 5!)

I've googled the crap out of various 911 iterations, but I haven't found the conclusive, comprehensive list, and even see a fair amount of contradictions among various sources. I imagine this has come up on here before, maybe, oh, once or twice....

Anyway. I'm looking for a rear-wheel drive 911 with a 6 or 7 speed manual transmission. Nothing earlier than a 997.2, and the latest would likely be a 991.2; I think the 992 would likely be out of my budget. Also looking for a hardtop or maybe a Targa. This would be for daily, street use, so any of the various 911GTs would probably be overkill for me. (And, if I'm shooting for the moon, would love a CD player, don't judge!)

So, two questions:

1. I'd love to hear suggestions for a car that fits the spec bill above. I like the, well, analog-ness of the 997.2, and that gets me out of the woods as far as IMS bearing replacement goes. But I know there's a later, turbocharged motor that actually gets better mileage, maybe the 991.1 or 991.2? But I'm not sure if that's available in the manual/RWD configuration I'm looking for, or is only available in all-wheel drive. Hence question #2...
2. Anyone know of a guide that goes year-by-year for 21st century 911s? I know this would seem to fall into the "let me google that for you" category, but I still haven't found something comprehensive and reliable that captures all the trim levels, annual changes within model generations, etc.

Also curious to hear anyone's thoughts about the certified preowned program from Porsche dealerships.

Thanks, Rennlist!

jbd3

Also - please let me know if there's a more appropriate sub-forum for this question. Thanks.

Nandska

Hey jbd3! Welcome to the forums. If you're looking specifically for a 991.x, it'll probably be better to post in the 991 sub form. For 997.x, 997 sub-forum.

Just to answer your questions:
1. 997.x and 991.1 are all motor (except for the turbo models). Any 4 model is all wheel drive. 991.2 except GT3x are turbo. I'm not sure MPG wise, but I know that my 991.2 has seen close to 30MPG.
2. https://www.stuttcars.com/porsche-mo...oogle_vignette can give you a rundown of each model.

Best advice, is to narrow down what you want and that fits your budget. Seems like you already know that you want a manual, RWD Porsche. I wouldn't sleep on PDK, but everyone has their preference. Put together a need/want/would like to have list and go from there. It may take you time to find the right one but that's ok. Many people on this board have taken the time to search for what they want.

bkrantz

As always, try to drive the options you are considering. That might quickly convince you.

jbd3

First, thank you, this is very helpful. And those Stuttcars guides are amazing!

PDK is awesome, but this is my last shot at a manual gearbox, I'm ok trading away some performance for that.

Just having online conversations like this has been a huge help. And the thrill is in the hunt, right?

If anyone knows a west coast dealership with a really broad used Porsche inventory, please let me know. I'm in Seattle but happy to travel as far as LA...

jbd3

I totally hear you. Would love to find a place where I could drive a few different generations back-to-back; one test drive is worth a hundred hours on the internet....

Dennis C

One thing you might consider is that you won’t be able to tell the difference between RWD and AWD models, particularly when driven on the street. I’ve driven lots of 911s in RWD and AWD, and in most everyday situations it’s hard to tell. Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate the reduced weight, the purity and reduced complexity of the RWD car, but I wouldn’t write off an AWD car until you’ve had a chance to drive one. If you’re set on RWD, then that’s fine; I just thought I’d throw that out there as a suggestion.

The cars that you’re shopping are pretty different, particularly the generational changes from 997 to 991. The 991 platform is a significant change from the 997 platform, although both are excellent. The 991.1 to 992.2 changes are more incremental in nature. Personally, I feel that the 991.1 is the sweet spot in the used 911 market. It’s just digital enough and just analog enough. The 991.1 cars are normally aspirated, which you may or may not like. Many people find this desirable.

Good luck and enjoy the hunt!

wdb

You won't find a RWD 997 targa; they were all AWD. Ultra-practical with the opening rear window, also pretty rare. 991 targas are quite complex and downright dumb IMO.

IMS bearings are trivial next to the bore scoring bogey, which will inevitably come for the 9A1 engine family. So be sure to look for good service records, in particular frequent oil changes.

I disagree with the poster who claims that it's tough to tell AWD from RWD; it may be truer for 991's, but certainly not 997's. The RWD cars are lighter on their feet, more nimble feeling. (The AWDs have their good sides as well of course.)

As others have said there is a considerable difference between 991 and 997. Be sure to check out both to see which suits you best.

Dennis C

I can definitely tell the difference when the car is pushed on the track or on a spirited drive on a mountain road. I’m with you there. Driving the speed limit on city streets to go out to dinner… no so much.

Butzi

Depending on your budget and model year, I'd definitely be looking for a CPO. I have also noticed a lot of prices dropping in the used Porsche market.

Go to the Porsche website: "Shopping Tools", "New & Used Inventory" and select the trims and options you want (Engine & Transmission):
https://finder.porsche.com/us/en-US/.../911?model=911
Look at both options & standard equipment lists because Porsche sometimes adds previously optioned items to the standard list in subsequent years...
If you find a car you're interested in, go to that dealer's website as well. They have a price tracking window:


Personally, I'd set my budget, make sure my finances were in order (duh), do the above inventory search, and then park yourself in the sub-forum of that model generation here on Rennlist to learn more.

I like your idea of a manual RWD. I think it'll be a great 911 to enjoy! Good luck.

jbd3

I have to say, you really got me with the line "just digital enough and just analog enough"!

Are you near Colorado Springs, by chance? Have you ever had any experiences with the dealer there?

jbd3

Also, as someone coming into this as someone with much less driving experience, thanks for sharing your thoughts. Stuff like this is really helpful.

Have you, or has anyone here, had a chance to compare the 997.1 and 997.2?

One thing I've read about the 991.2 is that since it's so much easier to get extra HP out of them, they're more likely to have been, well, thrashed. My understanding is that a Porsche dealer can tell how many times an engine has been over-revved; not sure how far this goes back in terms of models, and if an independent repair shop can do this. I think the simplicity of the 991.1 is the (relative) simplicity. But at the same time, it's really impressive with the 991.2 how they manage to squeeze so much power out of a smaller engine.

So, the hunt continues! And as I do this, I'm aware that probably any of these models would be a f-ing blast to drive.

jbd3

As soon as you put "Porsche 9A1" into google, "bore scoring" pops up immediately! I think this isn't a problem from 997.2 onwards?

Also, "Bore Scoring Bogey" sounds like a Dixieland jazz band...

jbd3

I just learned you can put your search preferences into the Porshe website, and they'll tell you when one meeting that criteria pops up at a dealer. The CPO thing is certainly compelling.

It does seem like prices have been softening a bit? I'm also a watch guy and a guitar guy, and the used markets for both are cooling down--watches especially.

Are you in SF? Is there a dealer there you like? I'm up in Seattle, but have been looking down there as well. Flying down and driving back up the coast would be the low-buck version of buying the new car in Europe, going touring in the alps, and having it shipped back!

Dennis C

I’m about 30 minutes north of Colorado Springs. I bought my 997.1 Turbo Cabriolet at the Porsche dealership in Colorado Springs. Overall, my experience there was good.

A Porsche dealer or an independent Porsche mechanic can check for overrevs. It’s a good idea to take a look at that in a car with a manual transmission. It’s far less likely to occur in a PDK car because of the safeguards that are in place. You can’t accidentally perform the “money shift” overrev on a PDK car because the system won’t allow it.

I have lots of time behind the wheel in 997.1 and in 997.2 cars. They’re both wonderful. If you’re looking for a PDK gearbox, then that eliminates the 997.1. I believe that it was first introduced in 2009 with the 997.2.

That said, the improvements made with the 991 generation are significant. The 991 isn’t quite as “raw” feeling as the 997, but it’s still great. The 991 chassis and ride are a huge improvement over the 997.

For perspective, when I sold my 996 and bought a 997, the 997 felt like a Mercedes S-Class to me because of the refinements over the 996! It’s all relative.

You can’t go wrong with any of the cars you’re considering. It really comes down to deciding what you want in a 911 and then prioritizing your list.

Enjoy the hunt!