Trumps tariffs a potential threat?
07-14-2018, 04:08 PM
#46
Rennlist Member
My info came from my sales manager as to what the industry organizations are doing which is believable.
PAG keeping the cars in Germany until tariffs end is a good idea. Sending bills of sale in advanced is another good idea but I guess it depends on how the law is written. Unless this later tactic clearly works and an exception under the tariff I would not buy the car and the get caught in a fight with the Fed over it. No way. Not worth it.
PAG eating the tariff? Lol. They won’t even reduce the price of a WP here in the States when we don’t even get the roll bar. They have one way pockets.
Did you know we have a 20% tariff on EU trucks and vans? WTF? We are protecting our truck industry. If I’m Germany etc that has to be reduced. What’s good for the goose...
Our economy would be devastated by a trade war with the EU. While at first I thought used GT cars might go up in value I’m not so sure if the economy goes in the crapper.
If if you are paying an adm do you think a piggish dealership is going to revert their adm into the tax for you and give it up to the Fed.
The Chinese deserve to get kickef in the *****. Duplicitous little bastards. They steal, lie, manipulate and cheat. Mexico too. They ain’t our friends. They are consistently f’ing us from immigration to trade. Now Canada getting hit I didn’t understand but I guess the EU is looking at that and saying to themselves “this guy it’s nuts, we better work this out”.
A 20% tariff has me walking 100%.
PAG keeping the cars in Germany until tariffs end is a good idea. Sending bills of sale in advanced is another good idea but I guess it depends on how the law is written. Unless this later tactic clearly works and an exception under the tariff I would not buy the car and the get caught in a fight with the Fed over it. No way. Not worth it.
PAG eating the tariff? Lol. They won’t even reduce the price of a WP here in the States when we don’t even get the roll bar. They have one way pockets.
Did you know we have a 20% tariff on EU trucks and vans? WTF? We are protecting our truck industry. If I’m Germany etc that has to be reduced. What’s good for the goose...
Our economy would be devastated by a trade war with the EU. While at first I thought used GT cars might go up in value I’m not so sure if the economy goes in the crapper.
If if you are paying an adm do you think a piggish dealership is going to revert their adm into the tax for you and give it up to the Fed.
The Chinese deserve to get kickef in the *****. Duplicitous little bastards. They steal, lie, manipulate and cheat. Mexico too. They ain’t our friends. They are consistently f’ing us from immigration to trade. Now Canada getting hit I didn’t understand but I guess the EU is looking at that and saying to themselves “this guy it’s nuts, we better work this out”.
A 20% tariff has me walking 100%.
07-14-2018, 05:06 PM
#48
Rennlist Member
Oh good. I was worried that I was’nt clear how I feel about those that are f’ing us.
Statiically they are short on average so in my book they are lying cheating manipulating little bastards. Actually the bastard aspect of my statement is probably the least accurate. They have cost us billions
Careful. Snowflakes may melt here.
07-14-2018, 05:10 PM
#49
Burning Brakes
+1 Maybe you're trying to be funny. But you're coming off as ignorant. I'm sure you're intelligent enough to express your views on trade policy without making racist comments. Or maybe not?
07-14-2018, 06:14 PM
#50
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I don't think it will happen, I believe Germany will do what they can to prevent this debacle from ending up in a trade war. Germany has far too much to lose to risk one of their biggest markets if not the biggest from taking a major hit in sales. I personally don't believe in tariffs but in open/free markets. However, I do believe I see Trump's play here. Why is it that we pay a 2.5% tariiff to import a German car into the states but the Germans impose a 10% tariff to import a US car into Germany? If anything let the field be even and if it all goes sideways well at least we have the Porsche's that we have.
Not sure why you think the auto tariffs won't happen. How can Germany avoid it? Dropping their (EU) tariffs to 0% won't really change anything for the better in terms of the trade imbalance, and the US definitely doesn't want to see the 25% light truck tariff eliminated.
It's virtually a certainty at this point that these new auto tariffs will be imposed by the US. I asked my brother who works for BMW USA what the expectation is among his colleagues in terms of timing, and he said they believe the tariffs will be imposed and come into effect sometime in August.
07-14-2018, 06:46 PM
#51
There are many products being traded - you can't look at one product in isolation. Average EU tariffs on US products aren't that much higher than average US tariffs on EU products. You can give the car example (10% vs 2.5%), but there are products on which the US imposes much higher tariffs, such as 25% on light trucks when the EU imposes only 10%.
Not sure why you think the auto tariffs won't happen. How can Germany avoid it? Dropping their (EU) tariffs to 0% won't really change anything for the better in terms of the trade imbalance, and the US definitely doesn't want to see the 25% light truck tariff eliminated.
It's virtually a certainty at this point that these new auto tariffs will be imposed by the US. I asked my brother who works for BMW USA what the expectation is among his colleagues in terms of timing, and he said they believe the tariffs will be imposed and come into effect sometime in August.
Not sure why you think the auto tariffs won't happen. How can Germany avoid it? Dropping their (EU) tariffs to 0% won't really change anything for the better in terms of the trade imbalance, and the US definitely doesn't want to see the 25% light truck tariff eliminated.
It's virtually a certainty at this point that these new auto tariffs will be imposed by the US. I asked my brother who works for BMW USA what the expectation is among his colleagues in terms of timing, and he said they believe the tariffs will be imposed and come into effect sometime in August.
07-14-2018, 07:27 PM
#52
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I agree with you that you cannot look at it singularly on one product. I don't think it will happen because it is really not beneficial for either country. Like I mentioned before, we are one of the largest sales markets for their auto industry if not the largest. A tariff of 20% will make a lot of people walk away or hold off on purchasing a German vehicle until the tariff is lifted and that is not just the high end vehicles. Germany doesn't want that and I believe they will work out something to avoid this from happening. On the US front, many foreign manufacturers are building their cars on US soil. Could a trade war potentially jeopardize those plants? Maybe, and that wouldn't look good for Trump who is supposedly for US jobs. There are a lot of moving parts here that I believe will eventually sort out. Although, it would be interesting to see all these dealers scrambling to find people to buy these cars that they were charging ADM's on if Tariffs are imposed. See how they like the taste of those sour grapes?
I don't think there's anything reasonable that Germany can do to work this out. Trump obviously strongly believes that auto tariffs will be popular with his voters, and he has been talking about this so much for so long that there's pretty much zero chance that he'll back out now. Quite the contrary - he'll move quickly - he wants it to happen well before the mid-term elections as he mentioned.
By the way, I don't think this will hurt the sales of luxury German cars quite as much as you think. All car prices in the US will increase regardless of where they are assembled. There will be a new reality where all cars are more expensive in the US than they used to be. This will hurt all car manufacturers, but luxury German cars with their mostly well-heeled and loyally enthusiastic clientele may actually be less impacted than others.
Regardless, all indications are that auto tariffs are practically a done deal.
07-14-2018, 07:43 PM
#54
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The proposed tariffs aren't limited to European brands. Also, the goal is to do something that's popular with the relevant voters, regardless of whether it makes sense or not (which it doesn't in this case). Bad policy can be popular, unfortunately.
07-14-2018, 08:10 PM
#55
Not being beneficial for either side didn't stop other tariffs from being imposed recently, so I don't see why it would stop these ones.
I don't think there's anything reasonable that Germany can do to work this out. Trump obviously strongly believes that auto tariffs will be popular with his voters, and he has been talking about this so much for so long that there's pretty much zero chance that he'll back out now. Quite the contrary - he'll move quickly - he wants it to happen well before the mid-term elections as he mentioned.
By the way, I don't think this will hurt the sales of luxury German cars quite as much as you think. All car prices in the US will increase regardless of where they are assembled. There will be a new reality where all cars are more expensive in the US than they used to be. This will hurt all car manufacturers, but luxury German cars with their mostly well-heeled and loyally enthusiastic clientele may actually be less impacted than others.
Regardless, all indications are that auto tariffs are practically a done deal.
I don't think there's anything reasonable that Germany can do to work this out. Trump obviously strongly believes that auto tariffs will be popular with his voters, and he has been talking about this so much for so long that there's pretty much zero chance that he'll back out now. Quite the contrary - he'll move quickly - he wants it to happen well before the mid-term elections as he mentioned.
By the way, I don't think this will hurt the sales of luxury German cars quite as much as you think. All car prices in the US will increase regardless of where they are assembled. There will be a new reality where all cars are more expensive in the US than they used to be. This will hurt all car manufacturers, but luxury German cars with their mostly well-heeled and loyally enthusiastic clientele may actually be less impacted than others.
Regardless, all indications are that auto tariffs are practically a done deal.
07-14-2018, 08:32 PM
#57
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Well I suppose we will all have to wait and see. I hope it doesn’t happen but to assume that German cars will be less impacted than others. I’m not so sure. I consider myself pretty fortunate salary wise but I’m not willing to swallow a 20% tariff. I will either look at the private second hand market which will most likely see a rise as well or continue driving my RS into the forceable future until the tariffs are lifted (no problem there either). Let’s just say I wouldn’t be visiting the Porsche dealership or scrambling to get on any of their lists until something changed. And I don’t believe I would be the only one. Also, saying something is practically a done deal until it is, is a mute point. Isn’t that what they said about Hillary getting elected? It was a done deal, oh wait actually it wasn’t.
It's practically a done deal because Trump committed to doing it, it's something that's actually in his hands, he has been consistently doing exactly what he said he would do on tariffs, and there isn't anyone who is able or willing to stop him. It has been a very central thing for him for many years, and it's popular with his voters. There's no way he isn't going ahead with it now.
07-15-2018, 02:15 AM
#59
Rennlist Member
I would say that there's a much higher percentage of Porsche buyers who are able and willing to swallow a 20% tariff than, say, Chrysler or Mazda buyers.
It's practically a done deal because Trump committed to doing it, it's something that's actually in his hands, he has been consistently doing exactly what he said he would do on tariffs, and there isn't anyone who is able or willing to stop him. It has been a very central thing for him for many years, and it's popular with his voters. There's no way he isn't going ahead with it now.
It's practically a done deal because Trump committed to doing it, it's something that's actually in his hands, he has been consistently doing exactly what he said he would do on tariffs, and there isn't anyone who is able or willing to stop him. It has been a very central thing for him for many years, and it's popular with his voters. There's no way he isn't going ahead with it now.
07-15-2018, 07:35 AM
#60
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
your premature in reaching your conclusion that Trump has decided to impose the tax. He has never stated unequivocally that he will impose the tax. All he has said that he would consider it. For now, he can’t take any action until it’s is established that the issue is one of National security. The commerce department is investigating this and will report sometimythis or next month. Meanwhile Congressional Republicans are up in arms over these tariffs and are asserting pressure on the White House to not take action. Though they don’t have the power to stop him, they have many tools available to shut down just about anything he wants to do.
Also the the Chinese president is in permanently. No election concerns.
Not the same in Germany.
The German auto industry is at the heart of their economy and could affect hundreds of thousands of their workers over night. It will also affect tens of thousands of jobs here in red states he carried over night. Hiking the price of a car from $40,000 to $48,000 is huge then ad sales tax. That’s a different financial analysis then spending another $6 on a baseball glove.
Merkel and the EU are VERY concerned about this threat as they likely believe Trump is nuts enough to impose such tariffs. Righly so. All they have to do is look around as to the other things he has done. NATO, Jerusalem, NAFTA, Syria bombed twice and the second time regardless of Russian threats, the Iran deal pullout. All of which EU countries were against except the second Syrian bombing. Hell they saw him imposing tariff on other allies such as Canada.
Remember, he is a bare knuckle businessman more so than a politician. The EU was hoping as allies they would be safe and exempt. Now what they hear is the famous line from The Godfather “it’s business. Nothing personal.”
Merkel last week signaled she wants to negotiate on the tariffs. Wise.
Trump was interviewed years ago by Rona Barrette where he said credibility and respect from other countries is key.
The EU may not like him but boy does he have credibility as far as saying what he means and meaning what he says. Between 2012 and 2016 Iranin gunboats harassed our Naval vessels multiple times a year. Since Trump has been in the Whitehouse it’s been 0. You draw your own conclusions as to why.
Some say he’s not smart. I disagree. Regardless he’s got a major pair of ***** and many times guts is enough.
Last edited by Waxer; 07-15-2018 at 08:00 AM.