Question about braking
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Joined: Sep 2021
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From: Portland, OR
Question about setting up load cell pedals. I've had the T-LCM for a few weeks now, and also switched to an 8020 rig last weekend. So far so good. The pedals come with 5 springs of different stiffness so you can mix and match to get the feel you like (the pedals need 2 springs). There's also a preload spring which is very soft and just serves to give that initial small travel before the pedal engages.
Most people seem to settle on using the 2 red springs, which are the stiffest. At first this made sense to me, you want to engage the LC as much as possible. But I was reading stuff last night, and one comment struck me - someone said that muscle memory works best for modulating pressure after you're no longer moving. That makes sense to me, I had a real hard time controlling the G29 pedals. So if the goal is to reduce pedal travel as much as possible, wouldn't it be better to use the softest springs? Or remove the springs entirely other than the preload, so there's no movement at all after the preload? Seems like that would get the pedal "down" to the LC with as little effort as possible, so most of the braking is happening after the point where the pedal isn't moving any more? If I use the stiffest springs, I'm braking while the pedal is still in its travel range. However, the brake pedal in my Cayman has a lot of travel, even when braking hard. So in terms of feeling like a car, it seems like trying to eliminate travel in the pedal is going in the wrong direction? Or do race cars have fundamentally different pedals from street cars? If I get used to an "almost no travel" LC pedal, will that get in the way of learning how to drive my car at the track?
I expect a lot of this will end up being personal preference, but I'm wondering if there's a theoretical / technical "right" setup here?
Most people seem to settle on using the 2 red springs, which are the stiffest. At first this made sense to me, you want to engage the LC as much as possible. But I was reading stuff last night, and one comment struck me - someone said that muscle memory works best for modulating pressure after you're no longer moving. That makes sense to me, I had a real hard time controlling the G29 pedals. So if the goal is to reduce pedal travel as much as possible, wouldn't it be better to use the softest springs? Or remove the springs entirely other than the preload, so there's no movement at all after the preload? Seems like that would get the pedal "down" to the LC with as little effort as possible, so most of the braking is happening after the point where the pedal isn't moving any more? If I use the stiffest springs, I'm braking while the pedal is still in its travel range. However, the brake pedal in my Cayman has a lot of travel, even when braking hard. So in terms of feeling like a car, it seems like trying to eliminate travel in the pedal is going in the wrong direction? Or do race cars have fundamentally different pedals from street cars? If I get used to an "almost no travel" LC pedal, will that get in the way of learning how to drive my car at the track?
I expect a lot of this will end up being personal preference, but I'm wondering if there's a theoretical / technical "right" setup here?
Intermediate
Joined: Feb 2017
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Question about setting up load cell pedals. I've had the T-LCM for a few weeks now, and also switched to an 8020 rig last weekend. So far so good. The pedals come with 5 springs of different stiffness so you can mix and match to get the feel you like (the pedals need 2 springs). There's also a preload spring which is very soft and just serves to give that initial small travel before the pedal engages.
Most people seem to settle on using the 2 red springs, which are the stiffest. At first this made sense to me, you want to engage the LC as much as possible. But I was reading stuff last night, and one comment struck me - someone said that muscle memory works best for modulating pressure after you're no longer moving. That makes sense to me, I had a real hard time controlling the G29 pedals. So if the goal is to reduce pedal travel as much as possible, wouldn't it be better to use the softest springs? Or remove the springs entirely other than the preload, so there's no movement at all after the preload? Seems like that would get the pedal "down" to the LC with as little effort as possible, so most of the braking is happening after the point where the pedal isn't moving any more? If I use the stiffest springs, I'm braking while the pedal is still in its travel range. However, the brake pedal in my Cayman has a lot of travel, even when braking hard. So in terms of feeling like a car, it seems like trying to eliminate travel in the pedal is going in the wrong direction? Or do race cars have fundamentally different pedals from street cars? If I get used to an "almost no travel" LC pedal, will that get in the way of learning how to drive my car at the track?
I expect a lot of this will end up being personal preference, but I'm wondering if there's a theoretical / technical "right" setup here?
Most people seem to settle on using the 2 red springs, which are the stiffest. At first this made sense to me, you want to engage the LC as much as possible. But I was reading stuff last night, and one comment struck me - someone said that muscle memory works best for modulating pressure after you're no longer moving. That makes sense to me, I had a real hard time controlling the G29 pedals. So if the goal is to reduce pedal travel as much as possible, wouldn't it be better to use the softest springs? Or remove the springs entirely other than the preload, so there's no movement at all after the preload? Seems like that would get the pedal "down" to the LC with as little effort as possible, so most of the braking is happening after the point where the pedal isn't moving any more? If I use the stiffest springs, I'm braking while the pedal is still in its travel range. However, the brake pedal in my Cayman has a lot of travel, even when braking hard. So in terms of feeling like a car, it seems like trying to eliminate travel in the pedal is going in the wrong direction? Or do race cars have fundamentally different pedals from street cars? If I get used to an "almost no travel" LC pedal, will that get in the way of learning how to drive my car at the track?
I expect a lot of this will end up being personal preference, but I'm wondering if there's a theoretical / technical "right" setup here?
A simplified way to think about it is if you stop just before bottoming out, the soft springs will only register 20% on the load cell but the firm springs will be at 50%. (those numbers are not real). Obviously you will have pushed harder to get there but all those steel springs are pretty soft, especially on an 8020 rig and compared to an actual car.
If you really want to improve your pedals, get rid of the metal coil springs (linear) and install elastomers (stiffer and progressive, more like hydraulic pressure). There are DIY and reputable after market options. Do a search on You Tube and figure out what's best for you.
As far as muscle memory and real car cross over, everyone is different but I'm pretty sure soft metal coil springs are the least like a real car of any option, regardless of travel. That being said don't over think it as there are countless other differences between the sim and your Cayman.
Last edited by DiBs820; Feb 23, 2022 at 04:29 PM. Reason: Dumb comment
Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 225
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From: Portland, OR
Thanks a lot for that explanation, that makes a lot of sense. It also explains the popularity of the elastomer mods, as well as the "we ensure that you get to 100% pressure on the load cell exactly at 100% travel" claims. I was looking at some of these last night. The 3DRAP product is available on Amazon, and then there are several other 3D printed options on Etsy etc.
I guess the other camp is the "real race car brake pedals feel like pressing on a brick, so that's the feel you want" school of thought? Having never driven a real race car, I have no idea what the pedals feel like.
And good point about not over thinking about sim racing vs. real driving 😊
I guess the other camp is the "real race car brake pedals feel like pressing on a brick, so that's the feel you want" school of thought? Having never driven a real race car, I have no idea what the pedals feel like.
And good point about not over thinking about sim racing vs. real driving 😊