End Users Please chime in Aim or VBox
04-22-2017, 09:29 PM
#16
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Matt, that's great that you go to the data first, but it's not what most people do.
Most people want to see, literally, what they did. Particularly with key performance indicators like throttle position, brake pressure (or position) and steering angle (being the ones that count) overlaid on the video.
Of all the four hundred fifty plus SmartyCams that I have sold, most folks like the automated, simple solution it provides for THEIR needs, not yours and mine. Intelligent, instrumented video allows them to assimilate the information quicker, more easily and with less quantitative analysis than you or I want or need.
Again, the few users (out of thousands I know and interact with) who monitor health measures first are car chiefs, crew chiefs and mechanics as well as shop owners looking for overrevs, low pressures or high temps. I know almost no car owners that have a channel report set up to do this and the ones I have been asked to help assemble are for the people that do the work on the car itself.
You know as well as I do how important it is to validate the video and data by looking at multiple parameters, if only to identify errors and prevent users from going down a rabbit hole (which pro team engineers seem to do frequently, despite their training!?!).
In the end, your post is why I sell multiple lines and why many of the coaching clients I have have more than one system. They have one for the guys that take care of the car, and one for themselves to "find time," because no one system does everything everyone wants.
Listen to what your customers want. It's enlightening...
Most people want to see, literally, what they did. Particularly with key performance indicators like throttle position, brake pressure (or position) and steering angle (being the ones that count) overlaid on the video.
Of all the four hundred fifty plus SmartyCams that I have sold, most folks like the automated, simple solution it provides for THEIR needs, not yours and mine. Intelligent, instrumented video allows them to assimilate the information quicker, more easily and with less quantitative analysis than you or I want or need.
Again, the few users (out of thousands I know and interact with) who monitor health measures first are car chiefs, crew chiefs and mechanics as well as shop owners looking for overrevs, low pressures or high temps. I know almost no car owners that have a channel report set up to do this and the ones I have been asked to help assemble are for the people that do the work on the car itself.
You know as well as I do how important it is to validate the video and data by looking at multiple parameters, if only to identify errors and prevent users from going down a rabbit hole (which pro team engineers seem to do frequently, despite their training!?!).
In the end, your post is why I sell multiple lines and why many of the coaching clients I have have more than one system. They have one for the guys that take care of the car, and one for themselves to "find time," because no one system does everything everyone wants.
Listen to what your customers want. It's enlightening...
04-22-2017, 09:56 PM
#17
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Matt, that's great that you go to the data first, but it's not what most people do.
Most people want to see, literally, what they did. Particularly with key performance indicators like throttle position, brake pressure (or position) and steering angle (being the ones that count) overlaid on the video.
Of all the four hundred fifty plus SmartyCams that I have sold, most folks like the automated, simple solution it provides for THEIR needs, not yours and mine. Intelligent, instrumented video allows them to assimilate the information quicker, more easily and with less quantitative analysis than you or I want or need.
Again, the few users (out of thousands I know and interact with) who monitor health measures first are car chiefs, crew chiefs and mechanics as well as shop owners looking for overrevs, low pressures or high temps. I know almost no car owners that have a channel report set up to do this and the ones I have been asked to help assemble are for the people that do the work on the car itself.
You know as well as I do how important it is to validate the video and data by looking at multiple parameters, if only to identify errors and prevent users from going down a rabbit hole (which pro team engineers seem to do frequently, despite their training!?!).
In the end, your post is why I sell multiple lines and why many of the coaching clients I have have more than one system. They have one for the guys that take care of the car, and one for themselves to "find time," because no one system does everything everyone wants.
Listen to what your customers want. It's enlightening...
Most people want to see, literally, what they did. Particularly with key performance indicators like throttle position, brake pressure (or position) and steering angle (being the ones that count) overlaid on the video.
Of all the four hundred fifty plus SmartyCams that I have sold, most folks like the automated, simple solution it provides for THEIR needs, not yours and mine. Intelligent, instrumented video allows them to assimilate the information quicker, more easily and with less quantitative analysis than you or I want or need.
Again, the few users (out of thousands I know and interact with) who monitor health measures first are car chiefs, crew chiefs and mechanics as well as shop owners looking for overrevs, low pressures or high temps. I know almost no car owners that have a channel report set up to do this and the ones I have been asked to help assemble are for the people that do the work on the car itself.
You know as well as I do how important it is to validate the video and data by looking at multiple parameters, if only to identify errors and prevent users from going down a rabbit hole (which pro team engineers seem to do frequently, despite their training!?!).
In the end, your post is why I sell multiple lines and why many of the coaching clients I have have more than one system. They have one for the guys that take care of the car, and one for themselves to "find time," because no one system does everything everyone wants.
Listen to what your customers want. It's enlightening...
We'll have to agree to disagree on what people do and should do. It's obvious that you like the qualitative measures more than the quantitative. If it takes you multiple systems in a car to do that, then go that route. Lots of folks can do it with just one system
You might like to check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMART_criteria for your KPI interests.For the OP, any data system will give you info. It's how you choose to use it. There is a learning curve to all of them and they will all help you improve your driving and skills. Enjoy the journey and have fun!
04-22-2017, 10:39 PM
#18
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We'll have to agree to disagree on what people do and should do.
It's obvious that you like the qualitative measures more than the quantitative.
If it takes you multiple systems in a car to do that, then go that route. Lots of folks can do it with just one system
For the OP, any data system will give you info. It's how you choose to use it.
It's obvious that you like the qualitative measures more than the quantitative.
If it takes you multiple systems in a car to do that, then go that route. Lots of folks can do it with just one system
For the OP, any data system will give you info. It's how you choose to use it.
As someone who has pioneered the use of data systems in club, DE and track day cars, my success is based on the COMBINATION of qualitative observation and evaluation, augmented and validated by objective, quantitative measures. All of which allows for the most well rounded and expedient direction forward. At least, for driver improvement anyway.
While "lots of people" can do it with one system, I've sold dozens of Solo DL/SmartyCam HD's to Marelli DDU-equipped Ferrari Challenge cars, DTA-equipped Lamborghinis and Marelli and Pi equipped formula and sports racing cars, as well as SmartyCam's and ECU Bridges to 997 GT3 Cup and GT3 R cars.
For LMP3 Ligiers and 991.1/991.2 GT3 Cup cars, the VBOX HD2 is a popular choice. Should we FORCE people to learn how to use these arcane and clunky "OEM" data systems when others FAR more easily used can be used in their place?
And what about cars that have no easy video solution? Condemn them to crappy GoPros and Race Render with a Cosworth, MoTeC or Bosch C50 data export? C'mon. The tech is better now, and the usability and utility of alternate systems makes it easy to augment what is there with something more usable and valuable to the DRIVER. It's about ease-of-use.
The OP is asking about ease of use and comparisons between two systems for the purpose of driver improvement. If you've read the thread, it's been filled with real-life experiences that will help the OP make a good decision, one that will allow THEM to get what THEY need out of whatever they buy.
And that's a good thing!
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-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
04-23-2017, 12:16 AM
#19
Yes, sure. I can't actually post an image right now because the machine that I have RS2 on here at the house is -- ahem -- having some problems (replacement time...it's old...but I digress).
I use Circuit Tools on the PC -- haven't really used the phone version other than to play with for novelty value.
What your attachments show is several graphs each of one measure vertically stacked one on top of the other marching down the screen where more than one lap's data for each of those measures is shown in each of those stacked strip charts.
What I'm saying is that it can be very useful to have more than one measure from the same lap data set on the same chart...instead of having them stacked one above other other on the screen, think of them being stacked on top of each other as you look down on them into the screen.
Aha -- brain wave: look at this post >>here<< -- it has a couple of examples of what I mean that I posted before. When looking at traction control action, I find it useful to see all four break pressure channels superimposed on one x/y axis pair, not 4 stacked charts of each separately. The combined G and long G on one is to me a very intuitive way of seeing where I'm leaving grip on the table for things like corner entry.
I agree that you can get the same for that latter example by using the vertical cursor across two stacked charts of combined G and long G in circuit tools...I just think that's more eyeball-to-cognition work than it has to be/should be in Circuit Tools. That and things like scaling control etc. just make CT's strip charts less moldable for max intuition, MHO. [CT and Comparo are the packages I've used that doesn't have the superposition capability; i2pro, ATLAS and RS2 all have it]
And of course aside from G-G, CT can't do measure-to-measure X/Y charts like in that second example at all.
None of that makes CT a bad tool for the job. For the way I see things it could be better though
I use Circuit Tools on the PC -- haven't really used the phone version other than to play with for novelty value.
What your attachments show is several graphs each of one measure vertically stacked one on top of the other marching down the screen where more than one lap's data for each of those measures is shown in each of those stacked strip charts.
What I'm saying is that it can be very useful to have more than one measure from the same lap data set on the same chart...instead of having them stacked one above other other on the screen, think of them being stacked on top of each other as you look down on them into the screen.
Aha -- brain wave: look at this post >>here<< -- it has a couple of examples of what I mean that I posted before. When looking at traction control action, I find it useful to see all four break pressure channels superimposed on one x/y axis pair, not 4 stacked charts of each separately. The combined G and long G on one is to me a very intuitive way of seeing where I'm leaving grip on the table for things like corner entry.
I agree that you can get the same for that latter example by using the vertical cursor across two stacked charts of combined G and long G in circuit tools...I just think that's more eyeball-to-cognition work than it has to be/should be in Circuit Tools. That and things like scaling control etc. just make CT's strip charts less moldable for max intuition, MHO. [CT and Comparo are the packages I've used that doesn't have the superposition capability; i2pro, ATLAS and RS2 all have it]
And of course aside from G-G, CT can't do measure-to-measure X/Y charts like in that second example at all.
None of that makes CT a bad tool for the job. For the way I see things it could be better though
04-24-2017, 10:54 AM
#20
Instructor
I've got a Solo and a VVBL in my 944. Got the VVBL mainly due do to price and the new camera requirement, GoPro's just are reliable. The VVBL is amazingly easy to use and get meaningful info to improve laptimes.
04-24-2017, 04:10 PM
#21
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