I've never been much of a laptop user, but the need for viewing videos and data analysis at the track has changed that. If you are the type that messes around with desktop computers then there are some great deals available for track laptops: old Lenovo Thinkpads (circa 2007-2008).

I ended up picking up two machines off Ebay. First is a T61 with a 1.8GHz Core 2 Duo, 2GB of DDR2 memory, Nvidia accelerated graphics, 1680x1050 15.4" screen, 32 bit XP, and 80GB hard disk for $130 shipped in mint condition. Upped the memory to 4GB, so I'm about $160 all in on that machine. Machine two is a T500 with a 2.4GHz Core2 Duo, 2GB of DDR3 memory, ATI accelerated graphics, 1680x1050 15.4" screen, 32 bit XP, and 80GB hard disk also for $130 shipped. Upped memory to 4GB for another $15, so that one is $145 all in. The T500 is a more desirable machine due to the DDR3 memory, but the case was in rougher shape, which actually makes it a "perfect" track laptop. The T61 is for the wife.

The key thing about these machines is to get one with accelerated graphics as that enables playing back HD H.264 (GoPro) video smoothly. CPU wise, Core 2 Duos are likely good enough for anything done at the track.

The best thing about the older Thinkpads is parts are cheap, they are serviceable, and the knowledge base is deep. Thinkpads.com is an enthusiast forum and the T61 has a good wikipage. Full service manuals and videos are available. The machines use standard parts and peripherals, so just about any OS can be put on them. There are guys who create custom machines, called Frankenpads by mixing and matching parts from several models.

What this all means is one can get a decent machine for not a lot of money and if it gets damaged, it is likely repairable and if it gets jacked, at least it wasn't a kilobuck machine. The older Thinkpads are also built very well as they have a magnesium frame. How cheap are the parts? A T61 Nvidia motherboard is about $35. A DVD burner is $6. Keyboards are about $15. LCD backlight bulbs are cheap too. 2.4GHz CPUs are $15 and an easy upgrade. Think Spec Miata of laptops.

There are a lot of Thinkpad models. IMO, desirability for this application goes:

W500>T500>T61P>T61

However, any of them are good for the right price*. The T61 and T61P come in 14" and 15" versions. There is a 14" version of the T500 as well, the T400. There may be other good models as well. Downside of the T61/T61P is DDR2 memory; up to 4GB is okay ($30), 8GB is pricey ($130). If you want 8GB, get a DDR3 machine. Prices go up substantially for I5 machines like the T510, which are newer.

Anyhow, I thought it was a good find, and now that we have a data subforum and a new year it seemed worth it to share as the videos and analysis software have to run on something .

-Mike

*ETA: If side by side videos are important to you, it may be worth not going lower than the T500/400 solely due to the Nvidia NVS 140M graphics in the T61 not having enough "torque" to run two videos side by side. It will run two if you run one in overlay (CPU decode) and the other in DXVA (GPU decode) so it's a PITA to run two videos at once, but it can do it in a pinch. It will run a single HD video just fine on the Nvidia NVS 140M GPU. See a comparison at the end of this post.

 

I like that! "Spec Miata of laptops," bravo!

 

Thanks for the great info. I'm not that knowledgeable but after some research became confused about accelerated graphics in the T500. It appears they came with two graphic options. One if the graphics card is built into the motherboard and the second is a switchable card. I think the two options are Integrated Intel® GMA 4500 MHD or ATI Switchable business graphics with 256MB. Do you know if either of these will be adequate for track videos? I use the Racekeeper system which isn't HD.

Thanks.

 

There are two types of T500s, with ATI graphics and without. The machine without only has integrated Intel graphics. The machine with ATI accelerated graphics also has the integrated Intel graphics and can switch between them on the fly. The purpose of the switchable part is to save some battery life, but I just leave mine on ATI.

The T61s also come in two flavors, with Nvidia graphics and without. The machine without only has Integrated Intel graphics. The machine with Nvidia Graphics only does Nvidia, there is no switch ability.

With that out of the way, the accelerated graphics does much of the video decode and unloads the task from the processor. H.264 is actually pretty tough to decode using the CPU, but using accelerated graphics drops this load to only about 10%.

For these Core 2 Duo machines, I recommend the Nvidia or ATI graphics if you plan on watching video of any kind. It doesn't cost much if anything and video playback will be a lot smoother. The accelerators will also help with flash video, i.e. youtube.

IMO, these machines should be fine as long as you are not recoding video. If you do have to encode video, these boxes will be slower than current quad core laptops. I save video encodes for my speedy desktop machine. Note, you can cut and splice MP4 files without recoding using MP4Box, which is free.

-Mike

 

replace the HD with a SSD and you dramatically increase your performance.

 

ALWAYS go for the heavier duty option, in this case the ATI. It's "switchable" based on demand and whether or not the laptop is plugged in. In power saving mode, it uses a weaker (but less power hungry) integrated graphics option, with shared memory. Plugged in or with Power Options set to High Performance, it enables a separate GPU (graphics processing unit), a MUST for nearly any HD and helpful for side-by-side SD video as in the original R-K.

Remember, this is an OLD computer, and computer tech progresses TEN times quicker than data logging tech, maybe TWENTY times in the same time period!

I'm all for spending sensible money for things used infrequently and for specific tasks, but be careful with these old warhorses. The Intel GMA series was one of the VERY FIRST generation "high performance" integrated-on-the-motherboard graphics options, and NOT one I would use with even a ChaseCam and a video Theoretical Best Lap assembly in TraqStudio, let alone side by side Race Keeper.

The advent of HD WITH data has really outstripped these things, so I can't recommend anything before a Core 2 Duo...

Me? I prefer to be just behind the bleeding edge, best use and performance for a reasonable price point. Do your homework!

 

+1 I gave my wife my old T41 when I got a new work computer. I put a SSD in it for her. It went from annoyingly slow to completely useable. Amazing difference.

 

Agree on the C2D. The other enabling technology is HD video acceleration, which came out about the same time as the C2D. You may be able to get by with the Intel Integrated graphics, but on the used market the ATI or Nvidia graphics is like $10 more, so well worth it. I didn't have a hard time at all finding two machines with accelerated graphics in the same price ball park as the Intel Integrated machines available at the same time.

HD video acceleration is very easy to do compared with high end gaming - you do not need an expensive video solution to play high quality, smooth HD video. In fact, the video options in these Thinkpads would be pretty poor at gaming by today's standards, but are quite well suited to 720/1080P video playback. By far, the biggest question to answer first is: "Am I going to run SW at the track that needs multiple cores to run well?" If you do, these machines may not be for you. One way to test drive this: Run your software on a desktop C2D machine if you have one. If it runs well there, it should run well on the T61/T500. If it is a dog on the C2D desktop machine it will suck running it on a C2D laptop.

Keep in mind that the fastest CPUs today are at most only about 2x the speed of the lowliest C2D. Many high end laptops are maybe 60% faster. You need to be experiencing noticeable delays before the speed bump is worth its cost. SSDs improve the experience and costs for them are not bad. For a track machine, you shouldn't need a large drive if you transfer the bulky material off of it in a timely manner.

One nice thing about the Thinkpads is the HD protection accelerometer that parks the hard disk if it detects the laptop is being dropped. Then there are the drain holes in the keyboard:


Now I don't advocate trying this, but at least there is some protection if liquids get accidentally spilled on the keyboard.

These lower cost machines are not for everyone, but I'm satisfied as it's good enough for my use and I don't want to bring a $500+ laptop with me to the track. YMMV and, as Peter suggests, do your homework.

-Mike

 

Would this work? My only use for it is a typical Sat night at a hotel after being on the track all day doing HPDE. I'd be looking to fine tune whatever I did on Sat before going back out on Sunday. I'm using Racekeeper non HD although I might upgrade to HD some day.

T60 loaded with 2GB Memory and 100GB Hard Drive. SXGA Super High Resolution Screen 1400x1050 (Rare 4:3 ratio)
Intel Core Duo
T2400(1.8GHz),
Memory: 3GBRAM (3GB Max)
Hard Drive: 100GB
15inch 1400x1050 SXGA LCD 4:3 Ratio
Video: X1400 128MB ATI Radeon
Fingerprint Reader
USB: 2.0 (2)
Optical: CDRW/DVD,
Wireless: Intel 802.11abg wireless
Bluetooth
Networking: Modem, 1Gb Ethernet
Mouse: Trackpoint and Touchpad UltraNav
Security: Secure chip,
Battery: 9c Li-Ion batt,
Operating System: WinXP Pro

 

Wow. Old.

I suppose I would try it with R-K SD. I would NOT try it with R-K HD, GoPro HD, VVBOX HD or SC HD video, especially side by side. Just too old.

Be aware that there is NO Win8 support for this card. It would need Win7 X64 drivers installed as a workaround.

I last used an X1600 ATI card almost TEN years ago, and in mobile form, it's weaker still.

My opinion is that it is bad money spent to buy an obsolete laptop, especially when CURRENT spec laptops can be had in the $400-$550 range.

 

If you already have it, it is worth a shot, otherwise I wouldn't go older than a T61. The T60s are limited to 3GB of memory. A T61 will get to 4GB economically. A T61 can go to 8GB, but requires pricey 4GB DDR2 modules to get there. A T500 can get to 8GB economically because it uses DDR3. 4GB of memory gives the capability of running Win7 or Win8 without a lot of lag. 8GB may not really be needed.

A little bit of searching on avsforum.com revealed than an X1600Pro is required for HD video playback and this post suggests that I'd pass on that machine. Near 100% cpu to play a single HD video is not good.

This is a good follow up to the "do your homework" points made earlier. IMO, available support for Win7 is a must (The T61 and T500s have complete Win7 driver support, and likely Win8 as well) however running Win XP is likely fine, but that may change as time moves on. I also would not sink anywhere near $400 into one of these older machines. Bang for the buck at the ~$200 price level is hard to beat. At higher price points there are better alternatives. Depends on what you need to do the job.

Peter,

Do the data analysis apps you use do a lot of video recoding for things like overlays? Track data files are "slow" meaning there isn't really a lot of data to crunch when compared to the throughput of any modern (2008+) cpu. A 10 or 20Hz sample rate should be a walk in the park unless I'm missing something. Why the need for the CPU horsepower and ability to playback beyond 1080P60? The AIM SW I've used doesn't seem to tax the machine all that much.

This side by side video got me to thinking and I did an experiment with my two Thinkpads:

I haven't done it before, but I just tried running two raw 720P60 GoPro videos side by side on the T500 running on battery and it did just fine and only loaded the CPU to about 35%. The T500 has a 2.4GHz CPU and the ATI graphics is a Mobility 3650 HD.

The T61 with the 1.8GHz CPU with the Nvidia NVS 140M didn't fair as well. It can play a single HD video smoothly only loading the cpu to about 15%, however it cannot play two 720P60 GoPro videos simultaneously on the video hardware without becoming a stutterfest. It will however, play two 720P60 videos simultaneously if you run one using the Nvidia graphics and run the other on the cpu. There the two will play smoothly with about 60% CPU load.

This result indicates that if side by side video is important to you, it may be worth not going lower than the T500/400 solely due to the Nvidia NVS 140M graphics in the T61 not having enough "torque" to run two videos side by side. So it's a PITA to run two videos at once, but it can do it in a pinch. It will run a single HD video just fine.

One does have to know what they are doing here - knowing what they are buying, knowing what they are going to do with it, and understanding the economics of it. This is a risky proposition for somebody who hasn't assembled trier own desktop machines.

-Mike

 

Since the AiM SC HD now has the ability to play two HD videos side by side, I would err on the side of POWER!

 

Thanks for your help. I ended up buying a T500 with an Intel CORE 2 DUO 2.40GHz processor, 4GB Ram. 320GB hard drive, discreet 256MB ATI Radeon HD3650 video and Windows 7. Right around $200 delivered.

 

rich fl , may i ask you a question
i also use race -keeper . can you tell me if you back up your race keeper files and if you do how you do it . i have tried multiple ways but all have failed
thank you

 

Cetom - I import the files using RK from the flash drive that I use to my desktop computer. I then copy them to my external hard drive for back up storage. I've never had a problem moving them. I'll take a stab here. If you're using backup software that's trying to compress the files perhaps that's causing a problem?