307Racing

Hello

I have been reading this forum for a few weeks now and I have to thank you guys for sharing some really valuable input on data acquisition systems. I have several track cars, but don't have the budget to fully outfit them all with the latest and greatest systems out there. I was initially planning on a Solo2 DL with a Smartycam because it can easily be transferred from car to car, however after reading your feedback on the benefits of VBOX's Circuit Tools, I am highly considering a Solo2DL and a VBOX lite. This seems like the best of both worlds, especially considering a Solo is only a couple hundred dollars more than the OLED display and it shows engine data and allows me to also use RaceStudio. Also, I see that the VBOX Lite has an optional cable to allow you to use your own camera, which can presumably be used with my GoPro. That way I can permanently mount a few cheap coaxial cables and power supply cables in the different cars, and just swap the main VBOX Lite brain unit between them.

First question. Is the VBOX Lite picky about video resolution when using your own camera (gopro)? I'm assuming I can choose the output resolution via the GoPro settings, however HD video would be great if the Lite can handle it.

Second question. Would it be possible to incorporate the TPMS setup that Matt sells anywhere in this system? I am a little unclear on the CAN capability of the Solo2DL. Obviously one is intended on OBD2/CAN engine input, and the other is Smartycam output. I am hoping that I can run the DL's Smartycam output to an AIM CAN hub with the TPMS sensor, then out to the VBOX, but I have no idea how to set that up in either program or whether the DL2 would log it.

Lastly, are there other forums better suited for these questions? Sorry this isn't directly Porsche related, however I have yet to come across a more active forum with this kind of support on multiple data platforms.

Thanks!!

Matt Romanowski

I can't help with the Vbox questions, but can on the AiM side. The TPMS works with a S2DL, but you would need custom vehicle protocols for each car with the TPMS added. The protocols that are included in RS3 and not able to be edited by users.

What vehicles are you going to use this in? Street or track only? I've had many customers buy additional harnesses and move a MXm or other dash between cars.

307Racing

Thanks for the reply. Right now this is would be used in my e46 racecar or e92 time trial/street legal car, but I buy and sell cars regularly.

So there is no way to use the obd2/can engine cable and your tpms with a s2dl? If not, I'm assuming the MXm can do both? Might have to go that route and keep using gopros for a while. Crazy how fast it all adds up.

Matt Romanowski

There is no way to do the OBDII / preset CAN and the TPMS. The OBDII and preset CAN protocols in RS3 are completely locked, so you can not edit them in any way. I've sold lots of systems to BMW owners who have put in EMTRON replacement ECUs and those are able to use a custom protocol.

I wrote MXm, but that was pre-espresso. The MXm only has 1 CAN input. To do 2, you would need a MXL2, EVO5, etc. Those are all considerably more than the S2DL or MXm.

I would say to step back and take an honest look at what data you want to obtain and what you're goals are. Do you want to improve as a driver? Do you want to tune the car? Do you want to do both? If it's driver improvement you want, then the standard S2DL will do what you need, even using just the GPS. Both of the cars listed have really good CAN connections, so you would get TPS, brake pressure, and more. That is solid driver development! If you want to improve the car, you'll want more sensors, info, so then you should really look at a dash to add all the other items like TPMS, shock sensors, etc.

I'd love to sell you a huge system, but if you are starting out with data, look at a Solo 2 DL and start with that. The used market is really strong on these devices and from the sounds of it, you would keep it for another car anyway. If you really like data, you can add a full system in the future easy enough. Plus, the $699 (retail) of the S2DL isn't too high of a barrier to start with data.

ProCoach

While the Solo DL is a great little tool, and offers good value, it still doesn’t integrate video into the review and analysis without adding a GoPro or some other camera and using RaceRender, TrackAttack or some other third party software program to put the data and video together after the fact. I sell a fair number of them and they would go back and forth between your E46 and E92 without difficulty. You’d need an extra cable that you would leave in the other car (they need to be connected directly to the vehicle CAN, no OBDII) but that’s easy with the harnesses I provide.

The Video VBOX Lite comes with one or two cameras (two cameras is all I’ve ever sold) that offer standard resolution (640x480), and you must use their cameras. They’re not very expensive so you could leave a pair of cameras, power cable, antenna and CAN cables in each car and swap the box back and forth. The price of the VBOX Lite WITH the OLED is about the same as the Solo 2 DL/SmartyCam HD with mounts, so there’s parity there. You’d need to add a CAN cable to the Lite to get engine speed, brake, throttle and one more measure that you can decide, usually steering. So there’s all that and side by side video from one SD card from the VBOX Lite.

While TPMS, heart rate, suspension positions and IR tire tread temps are nice, there is far more benefit to be found for most club level racing and track day drivers using the basics like the four channels above plus video, which is crucial. You can chew on that information for a long time. But that’s just my experience working with tens of thousands of drivers over the three decades, full time for the last half of that.

I have a few folks who use both AiM and VBOX, and having been a top dealer for both for almost a decade, have a lot of experience with the interoperability between both. Good stuff! Let me know if I can help.

Matt Romanowski

I completely agree that for 90% of people, a speed traces and longitudinal G gets people what they need. That is the beauty of the regular Solo 2. If you read the posts here, you'll see many of Peter's post that he likes to use G Sum (combined G) for driver development. You can get that for $400.

I agree that other more advanced things like IR tire temps and suspension sensors are not helpful to the driver who is beginning. I have learned enough about HR that it can be beneficial to any driver when implemented correctly.

There are lots of great dealers around for all the available equipment. Peter, Jerry, and I are all leasing AiM dealers in the US. You can see the Solo 2 and Solo 2 DL on my website at https://trailbrake.com/solo-2/ I am the leading East Coast stocking dealer and can ship as soon as I return from the AiM factory 7/12.

ProCoach

If you can’t wait, I can ship today!

Matt might be more than a tad optimistic in suggesting his status as “the leading stocking” dealer (most of the biggest mail order houses have far greater numbers in inventory), he is right in the fact that he, Jerry Austin, David Ferguson, Chris Harrison, Tom, Dave Redszus and I (at least in North America) provide more pre and post product support and education than all the mail order houses, because we USE the stuff at the track, some of us every day.

Lots of good choices, you’ve got plenty of resources!

307Racing

I currently use a GoPro to live stream races via wifi, and it would be really convenient to use the same camera to feed the vbox for overlay and later review.

Do you have any experience with using a customer supplied camera with this cable?

https://www.vboxmotorsport.com/store...product_id=113

ProCoach

I do. Typically for NTSC 420 or 580 TVL cameras, only 480p resolution.

The GoPro is 720p/1080p at the lowest settings and AFAIK doesn’t output using an RCA plug, only an HDMI out for some models.

At the time this cable was offered (I still have one in stock) it was to use cameras from CDS, ChaseCam and Race Technology with the VBOX Lite. About nine years ago!

Video has come a long way...

307Racing

So the 5 pin connector on the Solo2DL is only CAN output, correct? With only a handful of user selectable channels intended on Smartycam overlay viewing only? Say, for example, I wanted to add an additional oil pressure sensor to my data/video. Here is my farfetched post-espresso thought. What if I were to use an ECU bridge to get ECU data into the AIM network format, and combine that with the TPMS or channel expansion with a CAN bridge into the S2DL, using AIM's own protocol? Would any single channel input AIM system accept that setup?

Right now, just trying to tighten the nut behind the wheel but may as well get as much engine/chassis data into the S2DL as possible.

Grab me a an MSXL over at AIM real quick. I'll buy it right now

GoPro sells an RCA out adapter cable for the Hero3/4

Hmm

Not sure how the VBOX will handle higher resolution. I'll reach out to Racelogic

Thanks for your help! BTW, do new VBOX Lites come with 8 CAN channels already? If not, do you offer the AIM-VBOX cable that includes the 8 channel upgrade?

Thanks guys!

ProCoach

The number of channels are limited to those coming from the car and decoded in the configuration AiM provides. No, the Solo 2 DL will not accept the analog sensor to CAN AiM Channel Expansion, another ECU Bridge or more than one CAN input. You're better off getting an MXM or an EVO4S/GS-Dash if you want to add analog channels, but to do more than one CAN, you'll need more logger horsepower than that.

Driver stuff is easy, car stuff requires more horsepower from the logging hardware. Plenty of stuff out there to get everything you want, but not at the entry level of hardware that you're contemplating. Driver improvement is key, IMO.

I seriously doubt it, on the high def input to the VBOX Lite. It's got a maximum of 480 vertical lines in the VVBL, so it'll either cut it off or the scan rate won't allow it. It doesn't have enough GPU and encoding horsepower to do more than 480 x 640 (standard or "DVD" resolution) because it's got to write the information ON to the video real-time. It won't do it. It can't do it.

The new VVBL's come with four channels CAN. If you buy an RLCAB145M, to get information from an AiM logger or through a Data Hub connected to an AiM logger, you get a four-channel expansion, which is not cheap. I stock it all.

This is all you get from an E46 with a direct wire to the car from the VVBL Signals available: Brake Position, Engine Speed, Throttle Position.

This is all you get from an E92 with a direct wire to the car from the VVBL: Signals available: Accelerator Pedal Position, Battery Voltage, Brake Position, Clutch Position, Coolant Temperature, Engine Speed, Oil Temperature, Steering Angle, Wheel Speed FL, Wheel Speed FR, Wheel Speed RL, Wheel Speed RR. So, twelve channels, might think about an HD2!

I have a few used VVB HD's for about $1K, the original. This is a single camera system that uses a VVBL enclosure and the graphics are overlaid after the fact very quickly using VBOX HD application, all of the Circuit Tools 2 analysis power and channels are able to be logged. The picture quality is incredible (these systems were $2620 new, and the camera itself was $1K). It'll accept as many CAN channels as most of the vehicle VCI templates will allow, I think it's 32, but I'll check, if you're interested. https://racelogic.support/02VBOX_Mot..._HD_Motorsport

Matt Romanowski

The 5 pin connector is only the AiM proprietary CAN. The 8 pin connector has the "ECU" CAN on it.

Like Peter said, the S2DL is an entry level setup. It will not take any inputs outside of the CAN/OBDII/K Line and an LCU-One (lamba input). It will connect to a SCHD and that is about it. To do the analog inputs, you would need the MXM or more. I think you're basic plan of the S2DL with basic engine data is a good one. To add the TPMS along with the ECU data, you're looking at $1,800 or more.


That's a solid plan.



I tried - no luck. But I'll be honest, what I was trying to get was way cooler!

Matt Romanowski

You're right - I was typing on my phone while doing other things. Leading stocking dealer on the East Coast. Pegasus and most likely Summit have more, but neither are East. I'll fix the original post.

ProCoach

Better fix it again, as I am sure OG Racing, Discovery Parts and now Stable Energies all have more inventory, and they're on the East Coast. I know Roanoke has more than all three combined!

Anyone can sell this stuff, few can support it like you, Jerry or I can.

Matt Romanowski

I stand by my statement.