spg993tt

did we ever get anywhere on setting up a Cosworth online toolbox instructional online seminar thing?
ayone want to take the lead on this? I thin you could easily charge folks fair but good money and make some coin from it

ProCoach

spg993tt

dont think we need fancy cosworth branded techs. lets just find someone pretty knowledgeable from maybe one of the porsche imsa teams,?? a dag intimate with cosworth? pay them some dollars to host it online and collect funds from attendees, all online?

boxboxbox

ping me with a list of stuff that you want answered. i lead a cup car (not in the us series), so for most things (other than smartycam integration) i'm up to speed on.

or you and procoach can have a quick chat about it and maybe procoach can hit me up at VIR this week. I'll be there (not with a porsche, but a ligier in IPC).

ProCoach

93 FireHawk 968

spg993tt

firehawk, im over Cosworth for now. I put in the l120 blind motec logger (should have put in a c125 as more resale value) and boom, its like it used to be, old hat. I kno toolset enough to configure dash, forecasted laps, and the motec has gps, and it ties into Cosworth so the gps beacon triggering for motec also passes that lap beacon to cosowrth for forecasted lap on the screen. when it comes to motec, everyone knows it. everyone. pros everywhere. easily accessible. comes to Cosworth, we cant even find someone willing to host a seminar . that about sums it up. someone I know, who I believe knows this stuff well because he's dialed into the motec world, said that Porsche made the change because in that 2013ish? window when they were spec'd the new 991s, motec didn't have a color dash, and Cosworth did. and Cosworth was cheaper, more profit.
across the board, forget the cups and our dashes, but abs kits, pdm kits. telemetry, my belief is motec is just so much stronger.

Matt Romanowski

I might have to hunker down and learn Toolbox....

ProCoach

The best Toolbox users are the formula car guys.

For the past twenty-plus years, Cosworth (used to be Pi Research) has been the de facto open wheel data system, at nearly every level. From FF2000 to Atlantic to Lights to Champ and Indy car, no other system has gotten any footing. Not even now. Their office is in Indy...

There's a small community now of track day/HPDE drivers who have plunked down the cash for a more powerful version of Cosworth Toolbox, through the purchase of a license feature unlock token, and are able to do advanced analysis from the information provided on the PDR systems (OEM GM, primarily). It's pretty powerful.

It really depends what your goals are. Unless you want to craft your own views, and really leverage the power of the raw measures, Cosworth, and even MoTeC for most, is WAY more powerful than most people need or use.

There's a reason why pro racing teams hire DAGs. The configuration, use and maintenance of the pro-level (and frankly, pro-aimed) systems is a significant investment in time and knowledge. In the fraught schedule of a pro weekend, a DAG can be the difference between usable information and nothing more than lap times...

That's also the reason why the pro-level systems are so difficult for the casual user. The freedom to configure, build and arrange the data gathering and the way it's displayed is mind boggling. That power of customization introduces a level of complexity that most people aren't willing to learn, especially if they don't know in the first place what they want to see and how they want it to be displayed.

Enter the club level systems. Even the dumbed down Pi Research Delta Lite from fifteen years ago uses the same Toolbox that the current GT3 Cup car uses, but the preloaded templates of the old Traqmate system, VBOX systems and the semi-custom capability of AiM are so much easier to use and glean information from. MoTeC is somewhere in the middle. Steve and Mike H are familiar with it (as are many shops) because they've used it, hung around it and used it for years. It's sort of the "old shoe" and because a lot of ex-pro cars are trickling down into club level competition (and have been for a decade or more), a fair number of people are familiar with it.

But still, most people yearn for something easy, relatively simple, automated and reliable. That's what most people doing this want, even the pro teams I talked to over the last few days at IMSA VIR...

ProCoach

Glad to sell you expanded analysis licenses!

boxboxbox

it isn't that hard. i used to hate toolbox lite because you were limited to 5 or 6 work sheets but then once you work around it and make a workbook for driver, chassis, engine, yada yada and just import the same channels across the board, it's easy peasy. I can't touch the advance features in the cup nor program the dash like they could in the R; but that's more a math thing than a workflow thing. I could do it in the Audi, with a different system, but again, once i figured out the nuiances of how to "speak" or code in the language required, it's literally the same job in a different room.

of all the systems out there, I find pi to be a bit more user friendly than others. some say marelli is the worst, but even that's not too bad after swimming in it for a while. Once you get over the initial hurdle of "what's this crap and why can't it be like this this and that" and treat the system as a blank slate, guys who are used to handling data will pick it up in a heartbeat.

BillNye

Given the view count on these videos there is probably at least a few that haven't seen these. Seems mostly directed toward the GM PDR, but some may find it helpful.

https://www.hipodriver.com/getstarted/
https://www.hipodriver.com/resources/

ProCoach

Viperbob1

Toolbox and Toolset are both tools that with just a little practice you can master. I had a few hour tutorial with the data guy that knew Cosworth and then some time with our favorite Motorsports guys and a Cosworth tech for a few hours and I could be 90% of what I needed. There is a ton of data and its not just getting the display but the interpretation that I still have to work on (whether car is pushing/ oversteer and where in the turn to how to set up accordingly).

Nizer